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What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

savingjournalism.substack.com

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Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#51

Post by mcguire »

joe_the_user wrote: post #14

Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy. And this is healthy, in a way. No it's not. The NYTimes engages in journalism, which is a particular way of gathering and presenting facts. Which to say, among other things, they rely on publicly available information, gathering facts on the ground and sources . Sources are people with information, often but not always powerful people.…

Welcome to postmodernism! Nothing anyone says can be taken at face value! Deconstruct everything!

:-)

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#52

Post by peruvian »

underseacables wrote: post #19

“ Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy.” Let’s stop right there. I think the last 8 years have shown the media to have lost significant amounts of public trust. I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer.

Media has been fully untrustworthy since Operation Mockingbird.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#53

Post by MattGaiser »

mcguire wrote: post #50
slacka wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this comment missing a /s? The Daily Wire is actual fake news, with a long track record of misinformation and poor quality content[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]... While not perfect, NYT has a long track record of quality journalism that goes back hundreds of years, winning 130 Pulitzer Prizes. [1] https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/ [2] https://popular.info/p/facebook-allows-prominent-right-wing [3] https://…

Yes, I believe that to be sarcasm.

I don't know. I know people who truly think that way.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#54

Post by throwawaysea »

slacka wrote: post #42
markdown wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer. Yup. These days I only get my news from The Daily Wire and Joe Rogan. I'm educated, and I just can't trust the lamestream media.

Is this comment missing a /s? The Daily Wire is actual fake news, with a long track record of misinformation and poor quality content[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]... While not perfect, NYT has a long track record of quality journalism that goes back hundreds of years, winning 130 Pulitzer Prizes. [1] https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/ [2] https://popular.info/p/facebook-allows-prominent-right-wing [3] https://…

Ironically the Media Bias / Fact Check site you have linked also has a long track record of being arbitrary and reflecting the author’s opinions, basically. See what CJR wrote about them in the section titled “armchair academics” here: https://www.cjr.org/innovations/measure-media-bias-partisan....

> [Media Bias / Fact Check’s] efforts suffer from the very problem they’re trying to address: Their subjective assessments leave room for human biases, or even simple inconsistencies, to creep in. Compared to Gentzkow and Shapiro, the five to 20 stories typically judged on these sites represent but a drop of mainstream news outlets’ production.

I’m not a frequent reader of the Daily Wire but have read articles from time to time and haven’t found factuality issues any more so than other news sites. Glancing at their front page right now, nothing seemed obviously off. They have their own selection bias of stories they cover but that’s because they’re meant to be the answer to a lack of coverage of the same topics or same perspectives from traditional news media.

EDIT: looks like you added more links. I don’t have time to go through them all but The Daily Beast and Popular Info (run by Judd Legum, formerly of Think Progress) have a strong left bias. As for the Snopes fact check you linked, it is authored by Bethania Palma who authored an embarrassingly bad fact check about AOC’s account of the Capitol riot recently (https://www.allsides.com/blog/media-bias-alert-snopes-fact-c...). It seems you’re listing out a mix of anecdotal examples and opinions from people who themselves have political bias reasons to discredit The Daily Wire.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#55

Post by _cs2017_ »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #4

I wish the NYT would clarify or retract this piece/headline https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/russia-cyber-... > Widely Used Software Company May Be Entry Point for Huge U.S. Hacking > Russian hackers may have piggybacked on a tool developed by JetBrains, which is based in the Czech Republic, to gain access to federal government and private sector systems in the United States. My company has banned Jetbr…

You can't even sue them for libel. It's the kind of article that's perfectly legal, and yet does tremendous damage.

Yes, HN and Reddit comments can point out the flaws, but that's not going to make a dent on the public opinion.

So what options do we have to counter-balance "journalism" like that?

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#56

Post by mcguire »

underseacables wrote: post #19

“ Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy.” Let’s stop right there. I think the last 8 years have shown the media to have lost significant amounts of public trust. I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer.

In the weirdest twist of the 21st century, it turns out that the postmodernists were right and that deconstruction is an important tool in every citizen's kit.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#57

Post by 0xy »

vharuck wrote: post #43
seventytwo wrote: post #28

Seems like it would be easy to have a change log at the bottom of every article that tracks edits. There’s probably three free widgets like this on GitHub that would work just fine.

I've seen articles on NPR and Reuters that have brief summaries of edits at the bottom. Stuff like "Edited to correct affiliation of Dr X. The article originally and incorrectly said she worked at Y University." They'll also put an "edited at" time at the top.

More often they stealth edit to remove evidence of their inaccuracies or lies, though.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#58

Post by ViViDboarder »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #4

I wish the NYT would clarify or retract this piece/headline https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/russia-cyber-... > Widely Used Software Company May Be Entry Point for Huge U.S. Hacking > Russian hackers may have piggybacked on a tool developed by JetBrains, which is based in the Czech Republic, to gain access to federal government and private sector systems in the United States. My company has banned Jetbr…

Out of curiosity, what would you want to see clarified? They said that it “may” be an entry point for the SW hack and, according to some National Security folks, it is being investigated.

Is there reason to believe this is incorrect in some way? It may be premature and amount to nothing if Team City had nothing to do with the breach, but it doesn’t appear to be misleading or false. If it was, I’d imagine JetBrains would have filed a lawsuit.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#59

Post by pstuart »

underseacables wrote: post #19

“ Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy.” Let’s stop right there. I think the last 8 years have shown the media to have lost significant amounts of public trust. I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer.

The media has always been biased and plenty of mistakes have been made along the way (Hearst et al.) But I'm going to give more benefit of the doubt to organizations that ostensibly try to be neutral.

In this media bias chart it's interesting that virtually all the most reliable reporting is either in the center or a bit to the left of it: https://www.adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart-2...

In the end it does require having multiple sources, and a willingness to not let one's own biases get in the way.

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