Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem” • Hacker News Board

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#21

Post by _henrywu » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

boulos wrote: post #16

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effect of translation. If I remember correctly, I found The Three Body Problem super pleasant to read and engaging. By contrast, I liked the idea of Dark Forest but found it almost painful to read. The chapters were strangely broken up (some extremely long, etc.) a…

I had the same experience just a few minutes in to Dark Forest. I immediately googled to see if anyone else was struggling with the translation or if it was just me.

I found many passages difficult to get through, and I'd constantly realise I'd read an entire page without taking anything in. Book 3 and 4 where both much easier to read, and they were both translated by Ken Liu.

(Haven't read the mandarin versions though)

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#22

Post by steve_adams_86 » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

boulos wrote: post #16

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effect of translation. If I remember correctly, I found The Three Body Problem super pleasant to read and engaging. By contrast, I liked the idea of Dark Forest but found it almost painful to read. The chapters were strangely broken up (some extremely long, etc.) a…

Likewise. The idea of the dark forest was exhilarating and got the mental gears turning like crazy. I hadn’t encountered this idea before and I expected really engaging content.

The book was a bit of a slog, though. Still good without a doubt, just nowhere near as flowing and page-turning as the one before it.

I went into the third book slightly worried it might have progressed further in that direction, but you’re right, it was a step back in the right direction.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#23

Post by actuator » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

free_rms wrote: post #20

actuator wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be most actually, just the ability to let out what even few are thinking. Look at what's happening in India. An elected government on a clear majority, passed new laws and some section of people which are not happy with it, have held the government to ransom through protests. There seems to be international civil society support for the protests as it seems like the powerless going against an all p…

What's happening in India is that farmers were/are going to be screwed, and they're really mad about it. What has happened in China is that a billion farmers are massively, undescribably better off. You literally cannot describe it to the average American, their scale for lifestyle doesn't go that low.

> What has happened in China is that a billion farmers are massively, undescribably better off.

After Great Leap forward? Cultural Revolution? What about the farmers of the marginalized communities in Tibet and Xinjiang. I am not saying all that gets printed in Western press is true but it is not all fabricated up as well. There was an actual cost to getting here, which might not have happened in a democratic setup.

> What's happening in India is that farmers were/are going to be screwed, and they're really mad about it.

From news reports it seems only a section of farmers, as the protests are concentrated in few areas. But as I said in the comment above I don't want to go into the merits/demerits of it, as looking from outside we both will not have the complete info. You can call them capitalist interests but most of the expert opinion from a farming/economics standpoint within the country and outside seems to support the laws.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#24

Post by free_rms » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

boulos wrote: post #16

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effect of translation. If I remember correctly, I found The Three Body Problem super pleasant to read and engaging. By contrast, I liked the idea of Dark Forest but found it almost painful to read. The chapters were strangely broken up (some extremely long, etc.) a…

Apparently the evil alien robot in book 3 is waaaaay more Japanese-sounding in the Mandarin version.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#25

Post by newen » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

actuator wrote: post #17

newen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans are under the impression that Chinese citizens secretly hate their government but can’t speak up due to the authoritarian tendencies of the ruling CCP. Of course, any news that contradict this feeling can be ascribed to CCP propaganda. And of course, when asked to examine the source of this feeling, it can never be American propaganda but cold hard facts.

It doesn't have to be most actually, just the ability to let out what even few are thinking. Look at what's happening in India. An elected government on a clear majority, passed new laws and some section of people which are not happy with it, have held the government to ransom through protests. There seems to be international civil society support for the protests as it seems like the powerless going against an all p…

I’m just trying to explain the dynamics of typical HN comments regarding Chinese citizens, where the usually American commenter writes under the assumption that the Chinese citizen is held under this brutal dictatorship and must use any and all opportunity to speak up and/or oppose this brutal dictatorship. It’s a relatively recent phenomenon in American politics and it’s interesting to think about.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#26

Post by martin_balsam » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

boulos wrote: post #16

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effect of translation. If I remember correctly, I found The Three Body Problem super pleasant to read and engaging. By contrast, I liked the idea of Dark Forest but found it almost painful to read. The chapters were strangely broken up (some extremely long, etc.) a…

I think Ken Liu is a writer on his own right first, and a translator second. that might be part of the reason

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Liu

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#27

Post by free_rms » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

actuator wrote: post #23

free_rms wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's happening in India is that farmers were/are going to be screwed, and they're really mad about it. What has happened in China is that a billion farmers are massively, undescribably better off. You literally cannot describe it to the average American, their scale for lifestyle doesn't go that low.

> What has happened in China is that a billion farmers are massively, undescribably better off. After Great Leap forward? Cultural Revolution? What about the farmers of the marginalized communities in Tibet and Xinjiang. I am not saying all that gets printed in Western press is true but it is not all fabricated up as well. There was an actual cost to getting here, which might not have happened in a democratic setup.…

Can you name the dates and major events within the Great Leap forward or Cultural Revolution without googling and reading wikipedia?

I'm not trying to assert authority here but you could look at the last 500 years, the last 200, 100, years, the last 50 years.. cherrypicking a 25 year period that happened between 70-45 years ago is kinda weird if you're after understanding rather than scoring points.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#28

Post by Udik » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

actuator wrote: post #17

newen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans are under the impression that Chinese citizens secretly hate their government but can’t speak up due to the authoritarian tendencies of the ruling CCP. Of course, any news that contradict this feeling can be ascribed to CCP propaganda. And of course, when asked to examine the source of this feeling, it can never be American propaganda but cold hard facts.

It doesn't have to be most actually, just the ability to let out what even few are thinking. Look at what's happening in India. An elected government on a clear majority, passed new laws and some section of people which are not happy with it, have held the government to ransom through protests. There seems to be international civil society support for the protests as it seems like the powerless going against an all p…

I agree on the principle: being able to openly protest is better than not. Once this has been said, there is a big difference between a tyrannical government that keeps people in poverty and an authoritarian one that has brought many hundreds of millions to a western standard of life and made the country a credible competitor to the only other world super-power.

I perfectly understand a Chinese being proud of their country, their government and their CCP- as much as Americans are proud of their country despite their 2 million imprisoned people, dual-party system that allows no competition, police violence, decades of wars waged around the world and support for dictatorships and coups to overthrow democratically elected leaders. Things could certainly be even better and hopefully with time they will be- but this attitude of fixating on one aspect to justify a black-and-white view of the world- in which your side is the good one- is damn stupid.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#29

Post by elihu » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

alpineidyll3 wrote: post #2

I really love the 3bp minus the last 100 pages. Even more troublesome than the disappointing ending to the book is CL's warm stance towards the CCP and it's authoritarianism. Of course it doesn't rest on me to decide for others to sacrifice their lives for principles, but given the text there's no way to interpret it but cynical self-preservation. If nothing else it ruins the book for me.

Yeah, it also seemed a bit jarring to me how modern China is portrayed so positively in the trilogy. Perhaps this is also how books by Americans are seen in China? One could make a case that, say, Tom Clancy novels are pro-American cold war propaganda. (That's not really my view, but I could understand why someone, especially a reader from one of our cold-war adversaries, might think that.)

I think the most jarring bits are plot points where some ideology crops up that's contrary to whatever goals the countries of the world have decided to pursue, so they just make that opinion illegal and that's the end of it. And then I'm like: "that's not how that works in most of the world". In North Korea that might work, and maybe in China, but not anywhere with reasonably well-established human rights.

It was also interesting how China was always saving the day. That's sort of expected of any author to make their own country the heroes, but I couldn't help but wonder if that's really what he wanted to write, or if writing a story that could be construed as a criticism of modern China would get him in trouble in some ways.

On the other hand, a big early part of the first book was about how awful the cultural revolution was. Is it considered politically acceptable these days in China to acknowledge the past failings of communist government, even if criticizing the current policies often is not?

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#30

Post by Udik » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

newen wrote: post #25

actuator wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be most actually, just the ability to let out what even few are thinking. Look at what's happening in India. An elected government on a clear majority, passed new laws and some section of people which are not happy with it, have held the government to ransom through protests. There seems to be international civil society support for the protests as it seems like the powerless going against an all p…

I’m just trying to explain the dynamics of typical HN comments regarding Chinese citizens, where the usually American commenter writes under the assumption that the Chinese citizen is held under this brutal dictatorship and must use any and all opportunity to speak up and/or oppose this brutal dictatorship. It’s a relatively recent phenomenon in American politics and it’s interesting to think about.

What's even more interesting is that, despite being a recent phenomenon, everybody seems convinced it's absolutely normal to think in these terms. And yet I am sure than only four or five years ago people were talking about China in an entirely different way.