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Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

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Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#11

Post by alpineidyll3 »

actuator wrote: post #6
remolacha wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communist party/politics aside, I agree that the beginning of the book had seriously next-level sci-fi creativity, but the last third of the book really rushed the plot. 3bp also would've benefitted from a smaller cast with more character development. Still, great material overall. Can't wait to see an eventual 3bp movie.

> 3bp also would've benefitted from a smaller cast with more character development. Maybe it was because of my non familiarity with Chinese names or lack of detail to a lot of characters, that I had to constantly look back to see names if they appeared again after a while. I am not sure why this happened as I have read Manga or Manhwa in the past and have been able to hold a lot more characters in memory.

I found the number of interesting characters with good realization impressive. Also characters of both genders were almost equally well realized. It just too bad he couldn't bring meaningful resolutions to 90% of them.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#12

Post by tmp538394722 »

remolacha wrote: post #5
alpineidyll3 wrote: post #2

I really love the 3bp minus the last 100 pages. Even more troublesome than the disappointing ending to the book is CL's warm stance towards the CCP and it's authoritarianism. Of course it doesn't rest on me to decide for others to sacrifice their lives for principles, but given the text there's no way to interpret it but cynical self-preservation. If nothing else it ruins the book for me.

Communist party/politics aside, I agree that the beginning of the book had seriously next-level sci-fi creativity, but the last third of the book really rushed the plot. 3bp also would've benefitted from a smaller cast with more character development. Still, great material overall. Can't wait to see an eventual 3bp movie.

The huge cast of characters was definitely a challenge for me as well.

But I wonder sometimes if it’s more a cultural difference than simply some kind of “failure” on the authors part.

Have you seen those videos where old communist leaders gave speeches, they declare some good news, some achievement, and the crowd claps and cheers, and so does the leader. Watch Stalin, watch Mao.

To a westerner it looks like they are clapping for themself - taking credit for the victory.

But in communism, the results are not that of a “brilliant leader”, but rather the results of history unfolding. They aren’t clapping for themselves, but for society’s progression.

I think, similarly in this way, 3bp doesn’t have the “hero narrative” that western authors favor, because the protagonist of 3bp is society as a whole, while the characters themselves are just minor witnesses.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#13

Post by [deleted] »

alpineidyll3 wrote: post #7
PradeetPatel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some may call it self preservation, I would consider it to be a good business move. It is also possible that he was pressured by his publisher to include the postscript to alleviate potential pressure from governmental stakeholders. It has been established that the author's own political views, no matter how incorrect, will have an impact on the story. This is evident in 3BP.

With his current profile if he wished to renounce his support and seek asylum, he could. It would be a stinging betrayal for the party, more effective than any protest that was ever waged for HK... And it wouldn't endanger him or his fortune.

[deleted]

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#14

Post by newen »

free_rms wrote: post #10
alpineidyll3 wrote: post #2

I really love the 3bp minus the last 100 pages. Even more troublesome than the disappointing ending to the book is CL's warm stance towards the CCP and it's authoritarianism. Of course it doesn't rest on me to decide for others to sacrifice their lives for principles, but given the text there's no way to interpret it but cynical self-preservation. If nothing else it ruins the book for me.

I didn't get that from it at all. The theme of the last book is a conflict between values and survival. What's the point of survival if you sacrifice all values to do so? Liu is Chinese just like most of HN are American so there will be different default stances on international politics, but the books did not read as jingoistic to me.

Most Americans are under the impression that Chinese citizens secretly hate their government but can’t speak up due to the authoritarian tendencies of the ruling CCP. Of course, any news that contradict this feeling can be ascribed to CCP propaganda. And of course, when asked to examine the source of this feeling, it can never be American propaganda but cold hard facts.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#15

Post by da_big_ghey »

alpineidyll3 wrote: post #7
PradeetPatel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some may call it self preservation, I would consider it to be a good business move. It is also possible that he was pressured by his publisher to include the postscript to alleviate potential pressure from governmental stakeholders. It has been established that the author's own political views, no matter how incorrect, will have an impact on the story. This is evident in 3BP.

With his current profile if he wished to renounce his support and seek asylum, he could. It would be a stinging betrayal for the party, more effective than any protest that was ever waged for HK... And it wouldn't endanger him or his fortune.

It is well known that the CCP holds one's family hostage in cases when one goes abroad, as collateral against one's return:

https://www.businessinsider.com/liu-changming-china-holds-of...

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-deals-with-dissent...

It is an open secret that this is the case for many students who come to American universities, and this is often how they coerce them into sending back IP and trade secrets. I would shudder to imagine what might befall the family of a prominent defector that so humiliated the party.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#16

Post by boulos »

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effect of translation.

If I remember correctly, I found The Three Body Problem super pleasant to read and engaging. By contrast, I liked the idea of Dark Forest but found it almost painful to read. The chapters were strangely broken up (some extremely long, etc.) and so on. Back to Death's End and the "writing" improved again.

So was it the swap of the translators? Is Ken Liu's translation for Books 1 and 3 just more amenable to my western sensibility, or is Book 2 really just quite different, even in the original?

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#17

Post by actuator »

newen wrote: post #14
free_rms wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get that from it at all. The theme of the last book is a conflict between values and survival. What's the point of survival if you sacrifice all values to do so? Liu is Chinese just like most of HN are American so there will be different default stances on international politics, but the books did not read as jingoistic to me.

Most Americans are under the impression that Chinese citizens secretly hate their government but can’t speak up due to the authoritarian tendencies of the ruling CCP. Of course, any news that contradict this feeling can be ascribed to CCP propaganda. And of course, when asked to examine the source of this feeling, it can never be American propaganda but cold hard facts.

It doesn't have to be most actually, just the ability to let out what even few are thinking.

Look at what's happening in India. An elected government on a clear majority, passed new laws and some section of people which are not happy with it, have held the government to ransom through protests. There seems to be international civil society support for the protests as it seems like the powerless going against an all powerful government.

Without going into the merits of the protests in this particular example, just the fact that even a small section is able to express themselves is a good thing. One can always argue that this can become counter productive, but I guess that's better than people suffering silently.

Having said this, I don't doubt that the majority of people in PRC, at least Han Chinese are massively better off in the last 40 years.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#18

Post by elihu »

boulos wrote: post #16

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effect of translation. If I remember correctly, I found The Three Body Problem super pleasant to read and engaging. By contrast, I liked the idea of Dark Forest but found it almost painful to read. The chapters were strangely broken up (some extremely long, etc.) a…

I had the same experience with the English versions; the first and third books were more pleasant to read. (I don't read Mandarin.) I attribute it to the translator, but would also be interested to know if there was a difference in the source material as well.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#19

Post by varjag »

alpineidyll3 wrote: post #2

I really love the 3bp minus the last 100 pages. Even more troublesome than the disappointing ending to the book is CL's warm stance towards the CCP and it's authoritarianism. Of course it doesn't rest on me to decide for others to sacrifice their lives for principles, but given the text there's no way to interpret it but cynical self-preservation. If nothing else it ruins the book for me.

Any good aspiring-communist society book has to have either a Communist Youth or a Commissar character. It's the canon.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#20

Post by free_rms »

actuator wrote: post #17
newen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans are under the impression that Chinese citizens secretly hate their government but can’t speak up due to the authoritarian tendencies of the ruling CCP. Of course, any news that contradict this feeling can be ascribed to CCP propaganda. And of course, when asked to examine the source of this feeling, it can never be American propaganda but cold hard facts.

It doesn't have to be most actually, just the ability to let out what even few are thinking. Look at what's happening in India. An elected government on a clear majority, passed new laws and some section of people which are not happy with it, have held the government to ransom through protests. There seems to be international civil society support for the protests as it seems like the powerless going against an all p…

What's happening in India is that farmers were/are going to be screwed, and they're really mad about it.

What has happened in China is that a billion farmers are massively, undescribably better off. You literally cannot describe it to the average American, their scale for lifestyle doesn't go that low.

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