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How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

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Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#41

Post by mkr-hn »

rwl wrote: post #36
mkr-hn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more useful to look at the impact of a contribution. Apache, KDE, and GNOME are a bigger deal than GNU by that metric. But I also think it's a bad idea to try and put one over another when they all do their part.

I don't know how you measure "impact," but this doesn't sound right to me. If you took away all the GNU code from a GNU/Linux system, my guess is that you would no longer have a working Unix system. I don't think that can be said of the other organizations you mention. And if you mean social impact, I think it would be hard to overstate the role of GNU in getting the free software movement going. Yes, there is an eco…

Why does GNU need to be in the title? That's the purpose of the CREDITS file. No one is trying to diminish GNU's contribution.

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#43

Post by aniket_ray »

tedunangst wrote: post #26
ryanpetrich wrote: post #8

Lines of code is a poor way to measure contribution.

Why? It is a reasonable proxy for how long it would take to replace something, and it's the effort to replace something that is core to the "you wouldn't be where you are without us" argument. How would you measure contribution?

It doesn't really measure how time it would take to replace. Compared to KDE or Firefox code, GNU code is much more succinct and optimally written.

I really doubt that that code could be replaced easily in a single pass.

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#44

Post by zohebv »

cookiecaper wrote: post #9

FSF's insistence on "GNU/Linux" has always been childish, but now it's just silly really. For years the proportion of GNU software that actually gets run has been dwarfed by the code from Mozilla, KDE and/or GNOME, and other major desktop software vendors. The GNU/Linux argument has never been persuasive and I'd say it's high time they let it go.

I looked at the article and it seems to strengthen the argument for calling it a GNU/Linux distribution. The top contributors as per the chart.

1. kernel 9% 2. gnu 8% 3. kde 8% 4,5 java, mozilla 6% 6. gnome 3%

If you combine gnu with gnome, we have 1. gnu 13% 2. kernel 9%

Also considering that java/mozilla are platform agnostic, the candidate names we have are

linux-gnu-kde OR gnu-linux(-kde)

If you are not running KDE, then gnu-linux seems like a very strong candidate for the name. The argument for calling it linux would revolve around the availability of GNU software on other non-linux distributions in some form or the other, thus making GNU a not very distinctive moniker. But MacOS/BSD doesn't really carry as much GNU as Linux distros do.

But the kernel is running all the time when booted up. A better argument would be that only a fraction of GNU software is active at any moment, so by percentage of GNU v/s kernel code executed in any given time interval, the kernel should win handily. This pie chart, as it stands, actually makes a case for calling it GNU\Linux.

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#45

Post by sdkmvx »

woodrow wrote: post #16

Some friends of mine were working on a project to make a non-GNU linux distribution (well maybe not actually for distribution) just to see if they could: https://github.com/burke/non-gnu-linux/wiki I don't think much has happened with it recently, but they were working to build the kernel with icc (the Intel C compiler).

PCC would probably be easier, and it is still open source. Although a BSD-userland Linux would be interesting, I think the GCC compiler has become so widespread that it is almost impossible not to use it (except for Windows, of course). Even the BSDs, which are thoroughly against copyleft licenses, use GCC.

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#46

Post by rwl »

mkr-hn wrote: post #41
rwl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you measure "impact," but this doesn't sound right to me. If you took away all the GNU code from a GNU/Linux system, my guess is that you would no longer have a working Unix system. I don't think that can be said of the other organizations you mention. And if you mean social impact, I think it would be hard to overstate the role of GNU in getting the free software movement going. Yes, there is an eco…

Why does GNU need to be in the title? That's the purpose of the CREDITS file. No one is trying to diminish GNU's contribution.

By that line of thinking, why call it "Linux" (or anything else) either? I agree that "GNU/Linux" sounds kind of dumb, if that's what you're driving at -- but I'd be happy to call the operating system "GNU".

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#47

Post by aaronblohowiak »

sdkmvx wrote: post #45
woodrow wrote: post #16

Some friends of mine were working on a project to make a non-GNU linux distribution (well maybe not actually for distribution) just to see if they could: https://github.com/burke/non-gnu-linux/wiki I don't think much has happened with it recently, but they were working to build the kernel with icc (the Intel C compiler).

PCC would probably be easier, and it is still open source. Although a BSD-userland Linux would be interesting, I think the GCC compiler has become so widespread that it is almost impossible not to use it (except for Windows, of course). Even the BSDs, which are thoroughly against copyleft licenses, use GCC.

LLVM built a working linux kernel 218 days ago. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1832712

Why not just run FreeBSD?

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#48

Post by naner »

woodrow wrote: post #16

Some friends of mine were working on a project to make a non-GNU linux distribution (well maybe not actually for distribution) just to see if they could: https://github.com/burke/non-gnu-linux/wiki I don't think much has happened with it recently, but they were working to build the kernel with icc (the Intel C compiler).

The kernel is pretty closely coupled to the GNU userland. stali[1] is trying to accomplish the same thing. I think they are using utilities/ibraries from OpenBSD. Not sure if they have a working system, though.

1: http://sta.li

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#49

Post by mkr-hn »

rwl wrote: post #46
mkr-hn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does GNU need to be in the title? That's the purpose of the CREDITS file. No one is trying to diminish GNU's contribution.

By that line of thinking, why call it "Linux" (or anything else) either? I agree that "GNU/Linux" sounds kind of dumb, if that's what you're driving at -- but I'd be happy to call the operating system "GNU".

Why do we call it aspirin instead of acetylsalicylic acid? It's familiar, easy to spell, and easy to remember. It's an accident of history. What would be accomplished by renaming it?

Re: How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux?

#50

Post by djmdjm »

aniket_ray wrote: post #43
tedunangst wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It is a reasonable proxy for how long it would take to replace something, and it's the effort to replace something that is core to the "you wouldn't be where you are without us" argument. How would you measure contribution?

It doesn't really measure how time it would take to replace. Compared to KDE or Firefox code, GNU code is much more succinct and optimally written. I really doubt that that code could be replaced easily in a single pass.

citation needed
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