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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#621

Post by henrikschroder »

runarberg wrote: post #595
netrus wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that different from saying: "It's silly to eat Indian food [prepared by Americans] when there are plenty delicious American dishes"? No one is forced to eat fake meat, but as vegetarian who likes burgers, how am I silly for eating fake meat burgers? I also eat tofu, vegetables, Indian, Italian, and Vietnamese food, and I think variety is a nice thing to have. Silly me.

I honestly think that meat eaters are missing out when they eat these fake meat burgers (or beef burgers for that matter). You can put so many things between these buns some of these are really delicious. The variety of the veggie patties is amazing. When I order a veggie burger at a new restaurant, experiencing a new kind of patty is part of what makes burgers such a great food. Yes, I bet meat eaters say the same a…

> I honestly think that meat eaters are missing out when they eat these fake meat burgers

Have you considered the possibility that it is you who are missing out on experiences by refusing to eat these vegetarian alternatives that taste like meat?

"Oh, but real vegetarian food is so much better bla bla bla"

Ignoring your knee-jerk reaction, have you actually tried the Impossible Burger or the Beyond Meat burger?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#622

Post by henrikschroder »

Grustaf wrote: post #571
jayphen wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my life as a vegetarian/vegan I regularly consume “fake meat” products because they are simple to prepare and allow me to use recipes that are not vegetarian. For example, it’s extremely hard to find a good vegetarian burger — the beyond burger was a revelation the first time I tried it. I still like burgers, even though there are many wonderful vegetarian dishes. I didn’t stop eating meat because I don’t like…

Maybe in that dystopian future where bacon doesn’t exist and I get very nostalgic for the carbonara of my childhood, sure. But that’s not quite what we’re discussing. Meat exists but some people want to go vegetarian without sacrificing anything. I suppose it’s pretty similar to the logic of people who want to lose weight without giving up sweets or soda, so they switch to aspartame versions.

> Meat exists but some people want to go vegetarian without sacrificing anything.

Yes, how dare they?!? How can you call yourself a vegetarian without sacrificing anything? If anyone could be a vegetarian, there wouldn't be any moral superiority for the real vegetarians! Oh the horror!

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#623

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

danShumway wrote: post #609
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> In other words, nearly half of parents who try vegetarian weaning report that their pediatricians stop helping them or are unable to give them adequate/informed nutritional advice, and unsurprisingly, parents who no longer have adequate access to health resources and information struggle to raise healthy kids. I think your "other words" are deviating very significantly from the letter of the article and you're add…

You have to be pretty selective in this article to look at one word, "perceived", and conclude that the issue here is that people aren't trusting their pediatricians. If the paper meant to say that that vegetarian weaning was a snake oil treatment, it would have said that a lot more directly. Instead, it literally says: "Vegetarian weaning with appropriate guidance from family pediatricians or nutritional experts is…

>> That doesn't line up with the narrative you have about this paper. Nowhere does it say, "pediatricians should figure out how to convince families strongly willing to follow a vegetarian/vegan regimen that they're being scammed/deluded."

I'm sorry, I don't follow. Who said that?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#624

Post by alacombe »

hamax wrote: post #590
alacombe wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is at best dishonest, if you really referred to that definition, you would use "meat", not "imitation meat"/"fake meat"/"plant based meat". Everything in the marketing of that stuff is made to mimic meat-as-in-animal-muscle meat. If you want a burger, go eat a freaking slaughtered cow patty burger, don't be all fancy with that highly process crap.

> If you want a burger, go eat a freaking slaughtered cow patty burger Thanks for showing your true colors so I don't have to bother responding to this stupid post.

I am not hiding. Now if you have a problem with me, I'd be happy to resolve that different in person.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#625

Post by nec4b »

runarberg wrote: post #608
nec4b wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since when was eating meat in almost every meal in the human nature? All the nomadic tribes, people living in mountainous areas, hunter gatherer societies in temperate climates,... Though the question itself is pretty meaningless or misleading, since on average people today do not eat meat in almost every meal at all.

Like I said “only insular population of us living in harsh climates” . I doubt that hunter gatherers in temperate climate ate 100 kg of meat per year. This kind of meat consumption only existed were plant based diet wasn’t available at all. To contextualize, 100 kg (average yearly USA meat consumption per person) is around 2 kg per week, that is around 150 grams per meal (given 14 meals per week). I would say that qu…

>Like I said “only insular population of us living in harsh climates”.

Which is almost everywhere on the planet beside tropics and subtropics before agriculture came to existence. It was natural for humans to live on a predominantly meat diet for a lot longer than it became fashionable to live from plants only.

>To contextualize, 100 kg (average yearly USA meat consumption per person) is around 2 kg per week, that is around 150 grams per meal (given 14 meals per week). I would say that qualifies as meat in almost every meal.

The population of the USA is only 4% of world population and Americans probably eat more than 2 two meals a day. So no, on average we do not eat meat almost every meal.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#626

Post by nec4b »

hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

Should people who eat vegetables also pay for externalities, like ground water pollution with pesticides, decreasing number of insects and bee colonies collapse because of insecticides, destroying natural diversity with huge monocrop cultures, destroying top soil, diverting rivers for irrigation and so on?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#627

Post by tjr225 »

Grustaf wrote: post #517
tjr225 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its pretty intuitive, actually: people like burgers- even vegetarians or those trying to reduce their meat consumption.

I think that varies from person to person. People from largely vegetarian cultures probably don’t crave vegetarian hamburgers. And not all people from meat cultures do either. When I was vegetarian for a few years I simply ate vegetarian dishes. It probably depends on why you became vegetarian in the first place.

You’re not wrong but it’s beside the point. You don’t not make something because some people don’t want it.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#628

Post by danShumway »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #623
danShumway wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be pretty selective in this article to look at one word, "perceived", and conclude that the issue here is that people aren't trusting their pediatricians. If the paper meant to say that that vegetarian weaning was a snake oil treatment, it would have said that a lot more directly. Instead, it literally says: "Vegetarian weaning with appropriate guidance from family pediatricians or nutritional experts is…

>> That doesn't line up with the narrative you have about this paper. Nowhere does it say, "pediatricians should figure out how to convince families strongly willing to follow a vegetarian/vegan regimen that they're being scammed/deluded." I'm sorry, I don't follow. Who said that?

> I am inclined to believe that the problem is not that pediatricians are not adequately informed, but that parents are adhering to information from inadequate sources.

I don't think the paper supports that conclusion. The paper doesn't suggest that vegetarian weaning is itself a problem or a scam, it suggests that we don't have the educational resources available to support people who are doing it.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#629

Post by Grustaf »

tjr225 wrote: post #627
Grustaf wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that varies from person to person. People from largely vegetarian cultures probably don’t crave vegetarian hamburgers. And not all people from meat cultures do either. When I was vegetarian for a few years I simply ate vegetarian dishes. It probably depends on why you became vegetarian in the first place.

You’re not wrong but it’s beside the point. You don’t not make something because some people don’t want it.

I have no doubt they will be able to sell this to millions, I’m just saying that it’s a silly way to approach vegetarianism.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#630

Post by Badfood »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #589
Badfood wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go. Through. The. Ingredients. Caution not needed. Nothing new here

If you want to convince someone to trust something they’re likely not seeking out, giving them homework won’t be very persuasive.

Fair point. I do feel the responsibility is on the shoulders of those making claims of the dangers of meat alternatives though. Its easy to paint it as frankenfood, but if you look at the ingredients they are boringly normal
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