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Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

caranddriver.com

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Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#141

Post by friedman23 »

pokerhobo wrote: post #77
friedman23 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of uninformed negativity is why I'm loaded up on GM calls. GM btw, has no debt (at least in the way you are thinking).

GM has about $100B in debt https://www.benzinga.com/news/20/09/17407586/a-look-into-gen... . Help me understand how I’m misinterpreting this.

Almost all of the debt is in GM Financial which is a subsidiary. If GM Financial debt goes bad GM can just shutter the company. Also the debt is from leases, people right now during the pandemic are prioritizing paying their leases over the home loans and rent.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#142

Post by dplgk »

ip26 wrote: post #11
agleason wrote: post #5

I really love the F-150 and it's size, but I don't need all the power it comes with and would love it to be a little more fuel efficient. I realize the coming hybrid model is going to be a fortune more than the non hybrid, but I am curious how expensive an all-electric model will be.

Why is sheer bigness something to love about it? They literally don’t fit in many people’s garages anymore, they are so big. Honestly, can you help me understand?

Not surprised at all that two comments here defending the huge size talk about how it makes them feel special.

Personally, I think people look like idiots driving around monster trucks for fun. Unless you're actually having big shit to a construction site.

Sad that Ford had to start making the Ranger huge too.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#143

Post by dplgk »

HenryKissinger wrote: post #48
Ralo wrote: post #32

I've been a car guy since my teens, and have nearly everyone around me be some sort of mechanic but I've wondered a couple things about why electric vehicles will have mass appeal. Most electric vehicles seem to have their value based in the battery pack, but these batteries packs have a life span of 10~ years, right? Do these vehicles have zero value after ten years (assuming the batteries are bad then), high mileag…

> I managed to save thousands of dollars in high school/university just driving a beater and fixing it as stuff broke, but an electric vehicle isn't something that can be casually repaired right? Even if in 20-30 years when parts are cheap and plentiful, you need to be a skilled engineer (or at least highly trained) to do these repairs right? People will train themselves. In the world of science fiction, ordinary peo…

Not optimistic; people can't even fix the software on their computer, which doesn't require taking things apart, special tools or getting your hands dirty.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#144

Post by rasz »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #138
nickik wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are completely wrong, let me make the argument. As a whole, H2 cars are also quite heavy. You literally require everything that is in an EV plus multiple extra subsystems that are incredibly complex and not light by any means. The manufacturing and materials are very both complex and expensive. You need the fuel cell itself, and that is not just some thin layer, but a whole complex subsystem that requires…

> As a whole, H2 cars are also quite heavy. You literally require everything that is in an EV plus multiple extra subsystems that are incredibly complex and not light by any means. Toyota Mirai 2 curb weight 1925 kg vs Tesla P100 curb weight 2241 kg. Both have the range of 500 to 507 km. But with a Mirai, given that the infra for filling up would exist, I’d spend 5 minutes filling up instead of 40 at a charging stati…

Mirai 182 hp / 300Nm, seems to me they arent all that comparable.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#145

Post by rad_gruchalski »

rasz wrote: post #144
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a whole, H2 cars are also quite heavy. You literally require everything that is in an EV plus multiple extra subsystems that are incredibly complex and not light by any means. Toyota Mirai 2 curb weight 1925 kg vs Tesla P100 curb weight 2241 kg. Both have the range of 500 to 507 km. But with a Mirai, given that the infra for filling up would exist, I’d spend 5 minutes filling up instead of 40 at a charging stati…

Mirai 182 hp / 300Nm, seems to me they arent all that comparable.

If one needs 3s 0 to 62mph, sure.

*Edit: also, compare the price.

Mirai 2 will cost €63900. Basic Model S is €81200+ (even 10% tariffs are not getting it close) and P100d is what, €130k+? Nuts.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#146

Post by Hypocritelefty »

imtringued wrote: post #131
clouddrover wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Volkswagen was the biggest EV manufacturer in Europe in 2020. Volkswagen owns 12 brands: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands-and-models.html Volkswagen also sold more BEVs than Renault-Nissan globally: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/02/2020-sales-by-oem.html

According to the comment section of the second link. VW will dominate the European market. China already has their own low end EV market. That leaves Tesla to dominate in North American and in the high end EV sector of China. The foolish idea that Tesla will consume all ICE manufacturers is just wishful thinking.

It just goes to prove that sticking a battery under car is no big deal yet for tesla shills in here it is a game changer lol

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#147

Post by alphabettsy »

pmorici wrote: post #47
alphabettsy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you figure. The one that will actually be available at launch and I’m guessing most people will buy, with AWD, is $50k.

Can you cite any car company that makes the cheapest version of a product available before the more expensive one? It makes good business sense to start with the more profitable model I’m not sure why you bring this up as if it is bad.

I’m not the one that brought up that lowest priced Model 3.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#148

Post by alphabettsy »

nickik wrote: post #34
alphabettsy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you figure. The one that will actually be available at launch and I’m guessing most people will buy, with AWD, is $50k.

This is a terrible argument. Of any car most people don't buy the base version. People wont buy the base version of an F-150 either. And just because Tesla once didn't offer a car with the price they said doesn't mean its some inherent law of nature. Tesla now is a very different company compared to 2017 when they built their first mass manufactured car. Fact is that Electric F-150 will not be able to compete with th…

Look. I’m not the person who brought up the 35k Model 3. I was pointing out that the absolute base car and base trim is a silly metric.

They don’t have to compete with the base model. They can compete with the volume model. If they match it on specs and features it’s competitive.

Tesla marketing has a habit of being very ambitious so we’ll see if the range and performance are better in the real-world. They certainly have the technology and battery advantage.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#149

Post by Hypx »

whimsicalism wrote: post #139
Hypx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean a car without a driver and outside of a geofenced area, you definitely have not seen one before.

I don't know if I'm in a "geofenced area." I live in San Francisco, I routinely see self driving cars.

I'm guessing that's Cruise Automation. They talked about driverless cars in specific neighborhoods, but I haven't anything formally happening on that front. So they're either still using drivers or it's geofenced.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#150

Post by whimsicalism »

Hypx wrote: post #149
whimsicalism wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I'm in a "geofenced area." I live in San Francisco, I routinely see self driving cars.

I'm guessing that's Cruise Automation. They talked about driverless cars in specific neighborhoods, but I haven't anything formally happening on that front. So they're either still using drivers or it's geofenced.

I see both Cruise and Waymo routinely and maybe one other I am forgetting the name of right now.
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