So, the super-rich have some issues with their 27th home? Oh, no! I truly couldn't care less.
That’s for letting HN know! Really fascinating stuff.
The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
101–110 of 160 posts
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#102I wonder if the old guard of mega skyscrapers like the Empire State or Chrysler suffered from these problems too, or it's just inherent to the new skinny towers popping up.
They aren't that tall. 300m buildings are everywhere in China.
Quite ordinary residentials are creeping on 200m.
But 300m+ building all require very special engineering. Glazing designs for HVAC, water, and savage systems for supertall skyscrapers are still more or less a case, by case designs.
I lived in a few quite tall 200+ buildings. Leaks seem to be unavoidable with curtain walls, and the only remedy is to have glazing engineers fixing them every year.
Water supply is also finicky, and that's an inherent property of having so much apartments relying on a single pipe run.
Booming noise in ventilation is possible to avoid with extra equipment, or simply solid vent shafts at extra cost, but I experienced it even in buildings with $1m+ apartments. So, I doubt construction companies will bother ever fixing this en masse.
Sound insulation! Yes, there is no trick for it than thicker walls, and bigger gaps in between them, and it costs a lot, really a lot. You don't get it in highrises no matter the cost, unless it's being sold on this specifically.
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Talking to the constructors it is normal for architects to specify the impossible If the drawings are indeed for regulators, then architects should be sued when they prove to be impossible impossible. Failing that, we should get rid of architects to begin with (if they draw impossible things, what good are they?), and have actual engineers draw something that can actually be built. (Of course, the engineer should r…
Let me compare this to physics. We theoretical physicists will publish an experiment that we think is perfectly feasible. When we show it to the experimentalists, they will laugh and implement a very basic version of it with lots of simplifying assumptions, because that is all that is possible within technology and budgetary constraints. They will write a paper about it. The theoreticians will understand things a lit…
> Let me compare this to physics
It's not quite the same though. You are operating in uncharted waters and writing the rules with a feedback loop between theoretical and experimental. But the only bounds are what can practically be achieved given today's technological limits and understanding. Whatever both groups are working on, it stays between those 2 groups of experts.
In civil engineering you add a thick layer of regulation. Because what the architect theorizes about, and what the engineer ends up building will be directly populated or operated by the general population. An architect delivering something that isn't actionable as-is or an engineer implementing approximations that don't do the job will sit somewhere between worthless, fraudulent, and maybe even to criminal.
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#104at this point after a few years it would be probably very convenient to have a good insurance and a "random airplane" flying into the tower.
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#105I get conflicted feelings about this. On the one hand it's highly unlikely anyone in that tower would get a shred of empathy from the common man (and highly unlikely this is even one of their 5 other homes), but on the other it's just a damn shame that some of the most prominent landmarks in the greatest city in the world are crappy places to live at. I'm not of the opinion they're eyesores - the nyc Skyline was stag…
> I'm not of the opinion they're eyesores - the nyc Skyline was stagnant for decades until these needles came in.
This is just consumption for consumption's sake. You shouldn't throw away a building in ten or twenty years just beecause you get tired of it!
Humans have to get over the obsessive consumption if we are to survive the twenty first century.
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am doing a restoration of an old palace in Poland, the biggest issue is often the contractors do not understand the architect’s drawings. The drawings are more for the regulators such as building control than actually for the people working on site. Talking to the constructors it is normal for architects to specify the impossible, leaving it to the constructor to actually make it up on the job. Somebody said to me…
> Talking to the constructors it is normal for architects to specify the impossible If the drawings are indeed for regulators, then architects should be sued when they prove to be impossible impossible. Failing that, we should get rid of architects to begin with (if they draw impossible things, what good are they?), and have actual engineers draw something that can actually be built. (Of course, the engineer should r…
The implication is that regulators would never approve a design that is actually possible to build. That we're in a state where you have to lie to the regulators if you want them to approve your building.
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can make a living in organized crime. You can make a living polluting the environment. You can make a living defending corruption, helping the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer. The problems of the wealthy are as the problems of a tick sucking the lifeblood from a host. Rest assured that extending them empathy and compassion will be a strictly one-sided arrangement when push comes to shove.
I've worked with and lived around both poor and relatively rich people, but I can't say that the rich stand out as lacking empathy or compassion specifically. From my experience I would say the opposite is true, creating "anti network-effects" for many poor people. There seems to be growing resentment of "the rich" recently, but I believe that's misplaced. Things will get worse for "the poor" until the cause is diagn…
Judge people by their overall actions.
The top richest Americans have sucked out all the extra value created in society for the last two generations, while offloading a great deal of risk onto individuals, who are the least likely to be able to bear it.
Overall, we are in the process of destroying our ecosystem, and again, the richest people on the planet consume and waste literally _orders of magnitude_ more than the poorest.
You having met some rich people who are also nice is just an anecdote.
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having to take the freight elevator to your unfinished $20M apartment isn't suffering. These are spoiled brats grown up.
> Having to take the freight elevator to your unfinished $20M apartment isn't suffering. It might be? Suffering is entirely subjective... > These are spoiled brats grown up. Yes indeed.
Works better if you say "...isn't suffering on a level the rest of us need to worry about", I think.
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've worked with and lived around both poor and relatively rich people, but I can't say that the rich stand out as lacking empathy or compassion specifically. From my experience I would say the opposite is true, creating "anti network-effects" for many poor people. There seems to be growing resentment of "the rich" recently, but I believe that's misplaced. Things will get worse for "the poor" until the cause is diagn…
I don't know that the rich are above-average in lacking empathy or compassion. Though there does seem to be a correlation between wealth and ruthlessness, which isn't exactly the same thing. However, when we see bad behavior from the rich, like the Koch brothers, their wealth amplifies the bad behavior and it seems to have an outsized effect upon the world.
>correlation between wealth and ruthlessness
Any numbers to support this? Or you just believe so?
Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
#110> Initial findings showed that 73 percent of mechanical, electrical and plumbing components observed failed to conform with the developers’ drawings How is that even legal? Let alone technically possible? How does construction of these monsters work? "Yo, Bert, I need some 5x5 high-elastic steel framing for the 72th floor!" "Sorry man, we ran out of that when we 'redesigned' the elevator shaft, how about you take thi…
This is why it takes forever to build a nuclear power plant.
This kind of 'normalization of deviance' is normal in normal construction, but has to be either reworked or formally normalized in critical work.