Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 160 posts

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#81

Post by raihansaputra »

andreareina wrote: post #77
raihansaputra wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Alexander's ideas and patterns are very lean processes instead. He see what's the terrain like, what's the use like, builds a bit, and reevaluates along the way. He even explicitly have drawings rendered 'for regulation' but changes it after it's built. Context: I'm assuming Alexander here refers to Christopher Alexander. He has authored books related to identifying architecture patterns with 'liveness' in th…

> I think a lot of his ideas can be applied to software too Reportedly his book A Pattern Language inspired the GoF software patterns book.

Yeah, the practice of extracting of patterns in software does refer a lot to A Pattern Language[0][1]. Admittedly I stumbled upon CA's work when I'm looking into building a design pattern for my current workplace. But it's a bit disheartening that currently CA is referred more towards the design and design system side of software instead of the building/writing, although patterns are still very much practiced.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_pattern [1]: https://www.martinfowler.com/articles/writingPatterns.html#A...

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#82

Post by [deleted] »

OJFord wrote: post #54
pmontra wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they use concrete in those towers or is it all steel?

Generally concrete slabs form the rough shape of it, on top of a framework of steel. At least from what I see in the UK. I know NY & London do have, at very least historically but I assume now too, quite different heights and construction methods, due to differences in the geology.

[deleted]

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#84

Post by [deleted] »

BrentOzar wrote: post #33
colordrops wrote: post #20

I don't understand how anyone would want to live in a high rise. Rational or not, if feels dangerous to live high up in a narrow bottlenecked artificial construct.

Quick rundown of the advantages (I usually live in high-rises): High rises usually have spectacular shared amenities: grand pools, exercise rooms, party rooms, theaters, etc. One of mine had outdoor grilling areas that you didn't even have to clean up: the apartment had cleaning staff who would scour the grills every day. High rises usually have 24/7 door staff to sign for & lock up packages, get taxis, handle dry cl…

[deleted]

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#85

Post by justinclift »

BrentOzar wrote: post #33
colordrops wrote: post #20

I don't understand how anyone would want to live in a high rise. Rational or not, if feels dangerous to live high up in a narrow bottlenecked artificial construct.

Quick rundown of the advantages (I usually live in high-rises): High rises usually have spectacular shared amenities: grand pools, exercise rooms, party rooms, theaters, etc. One of mine had outdoor grilling areas that you didn't even have to clean up: the apartment had cleaning staff who would scour the grills every day. High rises usually have 24/7 door staff to sign for & lock up packages, get taxis, handle dry cl…

And not having to mow the lawn! :)

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#86

Post by LittlePeter »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #43
nefitty wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the schadenfreude. I used to dismiss the suffering of people who were “beyond” the survival levels of Maslow’s hierarchy. This changed for me when I read that Peter Singer himself focuses on influencing survival-level needs for those in poverty because they are more immediate and are more quantifiable. He said something like, “Well-off people suffer, of course, but those types of suffering are more difficult to…

Having to take the freight elevator to your unfinished $20M apartment isn't suffering. These are spoiled brats grown up.

Isn't suffering? That person had to stand in the elevator between steel plates and plywood!

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#87

Post by ksec »

I submitted this for just to make another point for my own Reference. Turns out there are enough interest for it to get onto Front page :)

For nearly 7 years, I have been asking the same question, Why Tall and Skinny? How far do the building Sway during High Wind? How do sound insulation work etc? And also the same question to Central Park Tower, Steinway Tower.

SkyScrapper isn't new. But Tall and Skinny top to bottom SkyScrapper is very new ( to me at least ), and to make the matter worst this is Residential. It is one thing to work in such environment during the day, it is completely different having to stay and rest at night in one. The building would sway enough during High Wind and Cyclone you would get sea sick. And that is with the commercial building which tends to have a much larger / thicker base and lots of weight while adding massive damper. Sound / Noise insulation is also problematic because doing any of it would add weight.

Central Park Tower, if I remember correctly, mentioned something about AWS and Cloud Computing meant they could do simulation that couldn't be done before! Technology has improved with better Material Science! And Steinway Tower is famous for its "tuned" mass damper. But again none to these are new.

So whenever I have my own dose of skepticism, I was always met with people calling me idiots; "You think the Billionaires dont do their Due Diligence?"

Having said that this article is only about 432 Park Avenue. Central Park Tower and Steinway Tower are still not completed. So may be they are really better with some "magic" technology improvement. I am just skeptical, and will have to wait and see.

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#88

Post by tedunangst »

dionidium wrote: post #79
lotsofpulp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not of the opinion they're eyesores - the nyc Skyline was stagnant for decades until these needles came in. One way or another progress in that regard is good? What “good” does a skyline do for society? The enormous costs to build super talls would go much further in myriad other ways, even just by making a few tall or many regular size buildings. Very far from progress if you as me. Actually, I would take the…

> The enormous costs to build super talls would go much further in myriad other ways, even just by making a few tall or many regular size buildings. Note that these supertalls only exist in the first place because it's artificially difficult to build regular-sized buildings in Manhattan. It's very unlikely anybody would have bothered building anything in this specific form if not for the onerous zoning codes the deve…

I'm not sure that article supports your conclusion. They made oversized mechanical floors to evade height limits. They could have made normal sized floors and still complied with zoning regulations. If the zoning regulations had permitted denser buildings, it would still be just as tall, but with more interior floors. Making the building ultra tall was the point, not an accidental quirk of zoning.

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#89

Post by tromp »

tasuki wrote: post #53
mmanfrin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leeks, Creaks, Breaks -- they're not all meant to rhyme. The last element is pronounced differently. I don't know what the term for it would be, but it's reminding me of 'Planes, Trains, and Automobiles'. Rhyme, Rhyme, Schema Deviation.

Adding to the confusion is that the "ee" is pronounced the same as the first "ea" which in turn is pronounced differently than the second "ea".

There is no "ee" in leaks...

Re: The Downside to Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks

#90

Post by abdullahkhalids »

raihansaputra wrote: post #73
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me compare this to physics. We theoretical physicists will publish an experiment that we think is perfectly feasible. When we show it to the experimentalists, they will laugh and implement a very basic version of it with lots of simplifying assumptions, because that is all that is possible within technology and budgetary constraints. They will write a paper about it. The theoreticians will understand things a lit…

> I don't think this back and forth is what happens between architects and contractors. Contractors are not paid to produce knowledge, and they have no incentive to better conform to regulations. So I expect the convergence between architects and contractors is very slow. > I don't think the solution is to regulate architects more, but rather to create a system where contracts actively provide feedback, so that proce…

Thanks. A Pattern Language is on my reading list. But I agree that in different times, cultures and legal regimes the feedback loop might have been much stronger. We should learn from those places.
Post reply on HN