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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#481

Post by jamil7 »

orange_tee wrote: post #78
maximente wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you wrote: > Malnutrition is also an externality. a poster addressed that, and now you have 4 more questions, none related to nutrition - and, hilariously, prefaced by the common but ridiculous "the question is" (implying there's one) rhetorical device. this style of dialog is really tiring.

All the questions are related. I am aware that some people can make it work, but if you remove cheap meat, who do you affect? Poor people. My question is, can poor people also eat a plant based diet with minimal malnutrition risk? All the questions are in reference to that. All I see about plant based diets say the same shit without answering the though questions. They always say, "it's possible to be a health vegan…

The idea that meat needs to eaten in the quantity and frequency that it’s currently eaten in the west to maintain a healthy diet is a recent idea. For my grandparents growing up most meat, especially things like chicken was a luxury reserved for special occasions. It’s also always interesting to me that when this argument comes up people are suddenly very interested in standing up for “the poor”, there are a whole host of other, more important ways inequality can be addressed at it’s root.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#482

Post by 3131s »

zaroth wrote: post #176

Aside from personal preference, I would think there are two main reasons to consider replacing animal meat protein with plant protein. Because it could be healthier for the planet, and because it could be healthier for human consumption. I’m not sure we’ve proven either one is definitely true. I think the evidence leans towards plant farming being less impactful to the planet on a fundamental conservation of energy b…

> I’m not sure we’ve proven either one is definitely true.

Then you don't know what you're talking about. Both are definitely true, despite the meat industry's best efforts to delude you.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#483

Post by dwaltrip »

tengbretson wrote: post #470
gbear605 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. Unless you’re raising a deer herd, and claiming ownership over them, in which case sure.

When you put it that way it kind of sounds like managing the animal conversion of biomass into methane isn't the actual goal then.

The goal is to fix the current phenomenon where human activity dumps enough co2 (and other greenhouse gases like methane) into the atmosphere to significantly alter the global climate and cause massive problems.

By the way, deer are not a meaningful contributor to atmospheric greenhouse gas levels.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#484

Post by neilparikh »

zionic wrote: post #3
sparrish wrote: post #2

It really shouldn't be called "meat". It should be called plant-based protein or meat-substitute. The definition of "meat" shouldn't change because you press some soy to look like a chicken leg.

I completely agree. That's one area where europe is much better than the US, they tend to force stuff to be labeled what it is.

I'm not sure I'd consider regulatory capture and artificial barriers to entry by existing industries to be a good outcome, which is what this is; they rules aren't implemented to protect customers.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#485

Post by georgeplusplus »

danShumway wrote: post #93
hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

Even if we ignore externalities and pollution costs, just stop outright subsidizing animal meat production so much. The reason meat is so cheap is because our government puts a lot of effort and money into making it cheap. I don't know why more people aren't trying to sell this to the "free market" crowd as government overreach. The reality right now is that plant-based protein is gaining popularity despite the marke…

If you wanna go down that route selling this to the “free market” crowd, than Id love to let the free market settle itself out in healthcare too and pretty much everything else that the government controls pricing on.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#486

Post by 3131s »

seventytwo wrote: post #17

Interesting how all the Silicon Valley brainiacs here on HN are far more interested in discussing the semantics of “meat” than the technology or economics. Kind of disappointing, really.

It's their cognitive dissonance at work. People, especially the type of folks here, will find anything to say that pushes the discussion away from the mass-slaughter of animals, because they know it's not justifiable, healthy, or sustainable.

I know how it is, I ate meat at one point too. I had thought that as an elite athlete it was necessary to do so, but now five years without any meat I am stronger than ever. I have never had one of these weird "meat" burgers though.

Americans... eat tofu, tempe, soybeans, long beans, mushrooms, seitan, nuts, kale, seeds, and more for protein and otherwise consume a lot of fruits and vegetables. American food culture is broken and if you live there you need to do everything possible to break away from it, otherwise you'll end up fat and sick like most Americans are.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#487

Post by paulie_a »

Badfood wrote: post #385
nkozyra wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both. This pursuit of tasting "kinda like meat" has incurred a lot of odd ingredients most people would normally eschew if they knew the extent of study in human consumption. Plain meat has a much better track record. I don't blame any meat eater for rolling their eyes at this stuff. And the decisions are sometimes odd. Like beet juice being added not for flavor but so it looks like the patty is bleeding. Meat eaters…

Meat has a better track record huh? Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by animal products. Those 'odd ingredients' don't seem so odd to me. Go through the list of a meat alternative one by one, you'll be surprised how mundane they are

That is not accurate at all. There are small links with increased cardiac issues but salt is a much much bigger culprit

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#488

Post by hoppla »

danShumway wrote: post #46
sparrish wrote: post #2

It really shouldn't be called "meat". It should be called plant-based protein or meat-substitute. The definition of "meat" shouldn't change because you press some soy to look like a chicken leg.

Is anyone really confused by this though? To be honest, this sounds like the same controversy as people complaining about almond "milk". I just don't see a lot of evidence that people are regularly accidentally buying vegan food. Meat has been used to refer to non-animal products for a long time, particularly around nuts. I don't think that the definition has changed as much as people are using a commonly understood…

I do not think people are confused, but the plants that are trying to be something they are not.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#489

Post by xsmasher »

travisporter wrote: post #364
diziet wrote: post #358

From an athletic or 'health' perspective, these plant-based meat substitutes have way too high fat content. You can get 93+% lean beef with 3-4 grams of fat per 20~ grams of protein, or even higher with game meat. None of the plant proteins appeal to a healthy eater, with the high coconut/canola/sunflower oil content.

I see it as them trying to compete with meat. Impossible has higher cholesterol content than beef right now, but I have a feeling this will change as the industry matures.

> the Impossible Burger has 0 mg cholesterol, compared to a quarter-pound, conventional "80/20" patty from cows which has about 80 mg cholesterol.

Fat and saturated fat is slightly higher; sodium is much higher.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#490

Post by therealdrag0 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #389
m463 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I wonder if a meat-based production system is a hedge against catastrophic/extinction events. For example, let's say we have another potato-famine style event. Even a bio-engineered attack that takes out a crop or crops. We could scale back meat production and use the crop capacity we use to support the "meat pyramid" to feed people directly until the crisis has passed. Subsidizing crop capacity might make…

This seems to suggest that you think our meat comes from animals who kinda exist and compete mutually with crops when actually we feed most of our crops to animals. If there was an ecological disaster that killed crop production, we wouldn't waste it by feeding it to animals for a grossly inefficient luxury item. It's like when people try to make a "pro-meat" claim by pointing out how much water it takes to grow a po…

> If there was an ecological disaster that killed crop production, we wouldn't waste it by feeding it to animals for a grossly inefficient luxury item.

This is what I interpreted the parent comment as saying.

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