Do you know what else is scummy? Writing a smear webpage about a competitor complete with intrigue involving leet "black hat software" and linking that page to your for-profit clone (mimbeo.com). For all we know this dude falsified the AirBnB e-mails himself just to make them look bad.
How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
81–90 of 197 posts
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#82I love this. Being scrappy is one of the best qualities among entrepreneurs. The attitude of "do anything" to succeed usually results in success not to mention it is one of the characteristics that PG looks for in founders.
Well, I'll be sure to include you along with AirBnb on my list of "People you cannot trust to be ethical".
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#83Why doesn't and didn't craigslist check for the almost identical emails if they are going through their servers? They could likely dig them out if they keep archives by searching on airbnb, nicest, largest, page, views. Airbnb have the funds now to cough up.
Probably for safe-harbor laws. As soon as they start inspecting things for content instead of server abuse, they are then way more involved and become liable for a lot more shit. They already got a lot of heat from their adult services section, they don't need any more. It's the same reason banks do not want to know what is in your safe deposit box, even if it's mundane.
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#84This is the same thing spammers do to steal money from people, and it's the same thing that dating sites do to pretend to have women interested in meeting dudes. Either way, it's fraudulent. I don't hate that they did this, but I hate that they tried to pretend they were anonymous women that happened to really like AirBnB. Why be so shady about it and instead why not just be honest? "Hey, we noticed your rental and t…
I assume they couldn't be honest because it would've violated Craiglist's Terms of Use, namely: You agree not to post, email, or otherwise make available Content: k) that constitutes or contains "affiliate marketing," "link referral code," "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or unsolicited commercial advertisement; l) that constitutes or contains any form of advertising or solicitation if: posted…
this is correct - I've tried to reach out to CL ads to obtain early customers for a web app that would seem to solve their problem (and I'm very honest about it, saying it's our app), but it gets flagged as solicitation, with a note to post it elsewhere.
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#85Do you know what else is scummy? Writing a smear webpage about a competitor complete with intrigue involving leet "black hat software" and linking that page to your for-profit clone (mimbeo.com). For all we know this dude falsified the AirBnB e-mails himself just to make them look bad.
Found via Google Search:
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#86For the record, I don't think this is that bad of a thing. If all of this is actually true (I'm not 100% sure it is), then it's certainly not on the level "actual spammers" perform at. Spam is basically unwanted and harmful advertising, and nobody complains when someone gets e-mailed an actual useful relevant thing out of nowhere. If the thing you're being e-mailed is more relevant than the ads GMail is showing you then I'm not sure you have a right to complain too much. Sure it may feel slightly off, but calling them "completely unethical" is going slightly too far.
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#87Do you know what else is scummy? Writing a smear webpage about a competitor complete with intrigue involving leet "black hat software" and linking that page to your for-profit clone (mimbeo.com). For all we know this dude falsified the AirBnB e-mails himself just to make them look bad.
Found via Google Search: http://www.vacationrentalscommunity.com/forums/t/2767.aspx
The author already claims he has access to professional spamming tools. All he has to do is spam people on craigslist pretending to be AirBnB in a way that can't be traceable to AirBnB. Then he writes an article complaining about AirBnB and asks "why would they hide behind shady tactics?"
You get maximum impact if you wait two years and post when your competitor gets really big so everything is forgotten and really untraceable.
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#88Everyone's focused on the ethics here, but if this is indeed what AirBnB was doing, isn't it a massive (and repeated) violation of Federal laws on unsolicited emails (for one thing, you're required to identify yourself properly) and likely other rules as well? What this article alleges isn't just questionable marketing practices, it's potentially deceptive / illegal marketing.
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#89Why doesn't and didn't craigslist check for the almost identical emails if they are going through their servers? They could likely dig them out if they keep archives by searching on airbnb, nicest, largest, page, views. Airbnb have the funds now to cough up.
Probably for safe-harbor laws. As soon as they start inspecting things for content instead of server abuse, they are then way more involved and become liable for a lot more shit. They already got a lot of heat from their adult services section, they don't need any more. It's the same reason banks do not want to know what is in your safe deposit box, even if it's mundane.
I hear you, however this is a competitive issue. It's an offense to craigslist by airbnb on craigslist, not an offence from person A to person B via craiglist. I suppose the first issue to look at is whether harvesting and then spam is against the terms of service. The content of those emails isn't genuine, Jill and Sarah aren't real people, they cannot judge the beauty of the properties they proclaim to have seen. It wouldn't be completely Winklevossing for craiglist to be pissed off.
If they turked each property one-by-one, I think that might be fair game.
Re: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company
#90Is anybody else slightly disturbed by all of the 'attaboy!' comments here on a post exposing unscrupulous and probably illegal business tactics? Think the response here would be the same if it was MicroSoft or the RIAA caught in something like this and not a YC alum? Anyway, great investigation and great analysis here, I think.
I agree the 'attaboy' comments are way out of place, but there is also an over the top reaction the other way with the criticism being heaped onto the AirBNB guys in my opinion. It was technically wrong of them to leverage craigslist by circumventing the community's own "no commercial email" request, and they should get dinged for it. But in the grand scheme of things, when you are a tiny start up struggling to survi…
"But in the grand scheme of things, when you are a tiny start up struggling to survive, this is a relatively benign grass roots attempt at marketing which the AirBNB guys even probably regret doing."
Hmm. Maybe. If you built a billion dollar business would you look back and regret a part of it that may have been instrumental to your success?
I'm definitely not excusing them for their actions but if I were in their position, I don't know if I could honestly say I would've regretted the past.