How to lower the price of plant-based meat • Hacker News Board

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#211

Post by bigfudge » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #176

Aside from personal preference, I would think there are two main reasons to consider replacing animal meat protein with plant protein. Because it could be healthier for the planet, and because it could be healthier for human consumption. I’m not sure we’ve proven either one is definitely true. I think the evidence leans towards plant farming being less impactful to the planet on a fundamental conservation of energy b…

You do know that a high proportion of all crops in the US are fed to cows right? We are not feeding cows grass, so your argument is mostly moot.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#212

Post by nemo44x » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #159

nemo44x wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered why we do this? How would our society be different if only well-to-do people could eat meat regularly? Would a regular guy be content with wealthy people eating steaks while jet-setting around the globe because of climate change? I think a populist uprising would occur almost immediately and we’d see heads on pikes with their decapitated mouths stuffed with cabbage for all to see. It would be supe…

> That's not necessarily bad, but if we're going to be messing with the market anyway we could choose to subsidize other things. I'm saying we shouldn't pretend that meat is as cheap as it is on its own. We should acknowledge what the reality is: meat is cheap because as a society, we choose to use tax dollars to make it cheap. We could do the exact same thing with plant-based meat. We could shift some of those subsi…

I just think it’s politically a non-starter. They tried to tax sugary drinks in the most liberal city in America and heads exploded.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#213

Post by unsigner » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

sparrish wrote: post #2

It really shouldn't be called "meat". It should be called plant-based protein or meat-substitute. The definition of "meat" shouldn't change because you press some soy to look like a chicken leg.

This.

In the EU, you can't sell a concoction of palm oil, whey protein, fillers, flavors and colorings as "cheese" - you need to label it as "breakfast spread" or something like that.

There are different words you are allowed to use for fruit-based drinks depending on how removed they are from actual fruit.

Why not apply similar standards to the ersatz meat?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#214

Post by bigfudge » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #118

jeffrallen wrote: post #114

Umm, just eat the plants instead? I don't get fake meat. It is a solution to the wrong problem. Make a small amount of meat sustainable and respectful of animal wellness. Then make the rest of your diet plant based. Done.

Just eat broccoli instead? I don't get other foods. Make a small amount of other things sustainable and respectful, then make the rest of your diet broccoli. Done. Almost the entire point of cultivating different foods is to enjoy different flavors and textures. If something is tasty but expensive, in terms of money or the environment, we should encourage the people that try to make it cheaper. There's no reason to w…

I think the point is that we have tried making meat cheap and it created a lot of problems. Until we fix those problems the grandparent comments strategy seems sound.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#215

Post by 867-5309 » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

not only this, but to turn plants into "meat" you end up with horrible processed vegetables with added oils, sugars and unnatural flavourings. most of which are then breadcrumbed in bleached flour and deep fried. by this point, the thing that might once have been a plant is now as bad as meat, if not worse, and resembles a dog turd in taste and health benefits

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#216

Post by bigfudge » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

GNU_James wrote: post #153

>plant-based meat No such thing exists by definition.

There is a lovely comment up thread providing over a thousand years worth of quotes proving the contrary

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#217

Post by secondcoming » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:21 PM UTC

hamax wrote: post #182

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

Definition of meat by merriam-webster: a: FOOD especially : solid food as distinguished from drink b: the edible part of something as distinguished from its covering (such as a husk or shell) The same as with milk. Nobody had problems with coconut milk until dairy lobby started fearing plant milk competition. And when one buys oat yogurt they know exactly what they'll get and what to compare it with. Or do you think…

Upvote this comment if you've ever encountered a native english speaker use the word 'meat' to be a synonym of 'solid food'.

Option Base 1

I would like to see when Merriam Webster added this obscure definition, let alone have it listed first.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#218

Post by hamax » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:22 PM UTC

zionic wrote: post #170

Jkvngt wrote: post #157

I know it's maybe not a very sophisticated position to take in the current year, but I will not eat the fake meat, I will not eat the bugs, I will not live in a pod, I will not own nothing.

I’m with you on everything but the cultured meat. If it’s real cells grown in an environment with no antibiotics or hormones that’s a huge win over growing an entire animal that stands in its own crap all day and is pumped full of growth chemicals and antibiotics so it doesn’t die. I’d love to buy my own self contained steak 3D printer for $10k

You'd eat a 3D printed steak but not soy or wheat protein that you probably already eat multiple times a week?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#219

Post by websites222 » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:22 PM UTC

bearbawl wrote: post #186

websites222 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is. It’s right there on the label. Things are called what they are called not because they have properties which match a platonic ideal and those properties are inextricably linked with the phonetic and orthographic representations of a language. No, things are called what they are called because lots of people make those sounds or write those symbols and associate it with that thing, which people receive as…

By the amount of words I’m sure I’ve lost indeed. In « many many » languages and countries, everywhere around the world, and particularly in our very small new extremism world. I have one question: why do people trying to eat only vegetables (is « vegetables » still ok?) insist so much to call that « plant-based » food « meat »?

> I have one question: why do people trying to eat only vegetables (is « vegetables » still ok?) insist so much to call that « plant-based » food « meat »?

That don’t. They just read what’s on the label and call it that. It’s preservationists who see a war here: everyone else has moved on.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#220

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:22 PM UTC

hamax wrote: post #147

bearbawl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that’s not meat?

Definition of meat by merriam-webster: a: FOOD especially : solid food as distinguished from drink b: the edible part of something as distinguished from its covering (such as a husk or shell)

Yep. That goes to show what I've said often in comments here: "meat" means food in certain parts of the world. That is to say English speaking parts of the world.

For instance, I'm Greek and in the Greek language bread is synonymous with "food". A few expressions in Greek characteristic of this synonymity of bread with food are: "δεν έχουμε ψωμί να φάμε" - "we have no bread to eat", meaning "we shall go hungry"; "βγάζω το ψωμί μου", "deriving one's bread", meaning "making a living" (analogous to "bring the bacon home"); and of course "πάτερ ημών ο εν τοις ουρανοίς δωσ' ημίν σήμερον τον άρτον ημών τον επιούσιον", or "our father who art in heaven give us our daily bread".

This is one reason why debates like the ones in this HN thread frustrate me. Yes, some people should definitely eat less meat. Much less meat! But that's by far not everyone in the world and some people have been eating very reasonable amounts, very sustainable amounts of meat (and very sustainable kinds of meat) for many generations. Of course those are the same people whose national cuisines are already teeming with vegetarian and vegan dishes, except of course those are simply called "food" in the local languages. I find it an affront, having grown up in such a culture, to hear that I have to reduce my meat consumption even further or switch to repulsive-sounding "plant-based meat alternatives" because some people half a world over can't sit down to eat without a big fat beef stake in front of them.

Bottom line: we haven't all fucked up the planet to the same degree. We shouldn't all have to change our way of life and the way we eat to the same degree.