How to lower the price of plant-based meat • Hacker News Board

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#181

Post by Erlich_Bachman » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #93

hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

Even if we ignore externalities and pollution costs, just stop outright subsidizing animal meat production so much. The reason meat is so cheap is because our government puts a lot of effort and money into making it cheap. I don't know why more people aren't trying to sell this to the "free market" crowd as government overreach. The reality right now is that plant-based protein is gaining popularity despite the marke…

Do you have any links to sources or further reading material regarding this current state of affairs? It seems not entirely obvious, nor easily checked for a casual reader. (Maybe that's part of the issue of why this is not a more popular topic yet.)

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#182

Post by hamax » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

Definition of meat by merriam-webster:

a: FOOD especially : solid food as distinguished from drink

b: the edible part of something as distinguished from its covering (such as a husk or shell)

The same as with milk. Nobody had problems with coconut milk until dairy lobby started fearing plant milk competition. And when one buys oat yogurt they know exactly what they'll get and what to compare it with. Or do you think fat free or lactose free cow milk yogurt shouldn't be called as such, since it's its own thing?

How we name things is important and naming things by their appearance and function is completely fine and useful and has been done since ever. Things like turkey ham or turkey bacon aren't new inventions.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#183

Post by ben_w » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #126

dabbledash wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about the meat issue, but I’ve seen women in mother’s groups ask “what kind of milk” people were going to be giving their babies after they were done giving breast milk or formula. Some people seemed to genuinely think that something called almond milk is actually a type of milk in some meaningful sense just because of the name.

Wait until they find out peanut butter isn't a type of butter.

Nor made of nuts ;)

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#184

Post by alacombe » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

hannob wrote: post #25

cccc4all wrote: post #6

Cows and livestock eat plants and convert into meat. It’s natural and organic and proven process that’s been around for thousands of years. Ground up plants with food colorings and odd shapes are not meat.

> It’s natural and organic and proven process that’s been around for thousands of years. Which is a good example how "natural" and "been around for thousands of years" does not equal "is good for the environment".

7 billions homo sapiens sapiens is not good for the environment either, so you should welcome war, genocides, pandemic and anything reducing its population.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#185

Post by Animats » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea.

The US meat industry is fighting that battle.[1] So far, they're not winning. In the EU, dirt farmers have been able to prevent the use of the term "organic" for hydroponic farms, though.

We can live up to great flavors vegetables, fruits, and herbs.

There's a bright future ahead for new classes of junk foods. Plant-based bacon flavored chips, coming soon to a convenience store near you.

[1] https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2021/02/03/Highly-...

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#186

Post by bearbawl » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

websites222 wrote: post #146

bearbawl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that’s not meat?

Sure it is. It’s right there on the label. Things are called what they are called not because they have properties which match a platonic ideal and those properties are inextricably linked with the phonetic and orthographic representations of a language. No, things are called what they are called because lots of people make those sounds or write those symbols and associate it with that thing, which people receive as…

By the amount of words I’m sure I’ve lost indeed. In « many many » languages and countries, everywhere around the world, and particularly in our very small new extremism world.

I have one question: why do people trying to eat only vegetables (is « vegetables » still ok?) insist so much to call that « plant-based » food « meat »?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#187

Post by bigfudge » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #165

ben_w wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they’re new and expensive? And surely that means “sample size small so consequence unstudied” rather than “this stuff is bad to eat”?

Sure, what I'm saying that it also doesn't mean “the existence of health vegetarians is testament to the healthiness of veggie-‘meat’.”

But cheap meat isn’t that healthy to start with, so we have quite a low bar to pass.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#188

Post by curiousllama » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

The place you’re right is in the “slab of meat” category: the only thing that’ll replace steak is lab-grown meat, and then only partially. And I agree that, eg bean burgers do well to market themselves as different. It’s a legit point.

But this new fake meat stuff reduced my meat intake significantly. It’s is FANTASTIC for replacing low-quality meat in a lot of cases. I have no need for ground beef/turkey/pork if I have beyond meat ground “beef” in a lot of cases. It’s a straight substitute, and I wouldn’t have thought about it that way if it was posed more narrowly.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#189

Post by hamax » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

alacombe wrote: post #180

hamax wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definition of meat by merriam-webster: a: FOOD especially : solid food as distinguished from drink b: the edible part of something as distinguished from its covering (such as a husk or shell)

OOTH Merriam-webster is changing definitions faster than the wind change direction...

Funny enough, this is the original definition. You are the one using the new "fancy" definitions.

Wiki: The word meat comes from the Old English word mete, which referred to food in general. The term is related to mad in Danish, mat in Swedish and Norwegian, and matur in Icelandic and Faroese, which also mean 'food'. The word mete also exists in Old Frisian (and to a lesser extent, modern West Frisian) to denote important food, differentiating it from swiets (sweets) and dierfied (animal feed).

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#190

Post by drivingmenuts » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 10:05 PM UTC

Already__Taken wrote: post #173

k__ wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't they compare it to meat? If I am asked to replace meat with plants, these plants have to compete with meat.

I've had a few of kinds of these burgers and honestly they're really nailing it with meat as a description.

Except for lying about it being meat. That definition should be reserved for animal-based protein.