How to lower the price of plant-based meat • Hacker News Board

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#171

Post by bsdz » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

slacka wrote: post #85

jcampbell1 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protein yield per acre for soybeans vs mung beans is 6x. No amount of try hard is going to make mung bean protein close in price to soy. What gets me is that I can’t even source tofu that is cheaper than chicken. Chickens are very good reactors for turning carbohydrates into protein.

> Chickens are very good reactors for turning carbohydrates into protein. The remnant wiring from my chemistry and biology classes tells me this is impossible. Did a little digging and no animal seems capable of this feat.[1] Chickens are fed a mix of cheap grains, like wheat and corn that are ~16% protein.[2] What they are is efficient at turning this protein into body mass/eggs. [1] https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a…

In the UK a popular plant based "meat" is Quorn. I believe that is grown by an organism that is fed glucose. The glucose is predigested maize starch. So perhaps not a single organism but two to make it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusarium_venenatum

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#172

Post by slicktux » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

If it’s a patty made with black beans then you will see descriptions such as plant based patty but if it’s a beyond burger then you’ll see descriptions like plant based meat; see if they are trying to make it look like meat and taste like meat then the description is applicable.

A common stigma with vegan or vegetarian diets is that of the food not being as good or limited and having something that compares to meat is a plus because it brings light to the endless possibilities in food and texture that a vegan diet without animal meat really has...

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#173

Post by Already__Taken » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #158

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

Why shouldn't they compare it to meat? If I am asked to replace meat with plants, these plants have to compete with meat.

I've had a few of kinds of these burgers and honestly they're really nailing it with meat as a description.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#174

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

tonyarkles wrote: post #168

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. Are we going to have people paying for the "externalities" of all the products they consume? For example, the people who buy a new phone every year or half (this habit causes a significant amount of pollution, so-called "e-waste"). The people who drive their car everywhere. The people who fly a few t…

I’m on my phone at the moment and can’t break down that list line-by-line, but in Canada you already do pay surcharges for many (not all) of those things. E-waste is nominally priced at the cost of recycling for various device types; electricity, natural gas, and gasoline, and aviation all have a (not insignificant!) carbon tax associated with them.

Good news, but that's in Canada. Where else?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#175

Post by bigfudge » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #135

danShumway wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we ignore externalities and pollution costs, just stop outright subsidizing animal meat production so much. The reason meat is so cheap is because our government puts a lot of effort and money into making it cheap. I don't know why more people aren't trying to sell this to the "free market" crowd as government overreach. The reality right now is that plant-based protein is gaining popularity despite the marke…

Have you considered why we do this? How would our society be different if only well-to-do people could eat meat regularly? Would a regular guy be content with wealthy people eating steaks while jet-setting around the globe because of climate change? I think a populist uprising would occur almost immediately and we’d see heads on pikes with their decapitated mouths stuffed with cabbage for all to see. It would be supe…

If meat is the trigger to generate real social change then great! I don’t want to see heads on spikes, but if people are genuinely bought off by cheap meat that’s kind of sad.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#176

Post by zaroth » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

Aside from personal preference, I would think there are two main reasons to consider replacing animal meat protein with plant protein. Because it could be healthier for the planet, and because it could be healthier for human consumption.

I’m not sure we’ve proven either one is definitely true. I think the evidence leans towards plant farming being less impactful to the planet on a fundamental conservation of energy basis, but farming at scale the ways that humans tend to do it causes a lot of problems with soil erosion and pesticide contamination which are yet to be overcome, but likely easier to solve than a similar problem of growing enough grass and corn for the cows.

On the other hand, I’m a lot less convinced that eating these highly processed plant proteins (to get them into a desirable form for mass consumption) is necessarily a de facto healthier way for humans to get their protein.

I just tend to be wary of IPO-scale manufacturing of hyped/trendy processed foods.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#177

Post by eznzt » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

jrimbault wrote: post #99

eznzt wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the average EU citizen, I don't remember ever voting for anybody who represents me in the EU and I don't know any of the structures of power of the EU or how they work.

I learned the political structure of the European Union in school, several times, once in middle school, once in high shool, with many repetitions in between. If you haven't learned you might either be older than me (I'm near thirty) or the education system in your country has worse issues than mine, or just not interested in Wikipedia ?

Interesting. I see you are French--that makes sense, since it's only France and Germany ruling the EU.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#178

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #107

danShumway wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but people do get confused about their nutritional profiles By that logic, should 2% milk be allowed to be called milk? What about chocolate milk? Nutritional profiles can vary wildly between different brands and products, especially when we're talking about meat -- so where do you draw the line?

Well chocolate milk does come from brown cows, according to 16 million americans https://iheartintelligence.com/millions-of-americans-think-c...

I find it more likely that 16 million Americans decided to take the piss when answering that particular question, perhaps offended that such an obviously dumb question would be asked of them with a straight face. I would be.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#179

Post by bigfudge » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #128

wyre wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A carbon-tax funded UBI would be popular, but ideally wouldn’t funding from a carbon tax go towards sequestering the carbon and other green initiatives instead of giving it back to consumers to spend on high-carbon goods and services?

It’s essentially what we do today. High tax payers consume more and their tax revenues subsidize things like Ag which make things like meat affordable to poor people. So yeah, get rid of subsidies and replace with UBI and we’re probably in nearly the same place. Maybe a good deal of people would forego newly expensive meat and spend their UBI on the lotto?

Why the snipe at the end? Perhaps they would buy plant based food instead. What you’re describing sounds like a wi for everyone.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#180

Post by alacombe » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

hamax wrote: post #147

bearbawl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that’s not meat?

Definition of meat by merriam-webster: a: FOOD especially : solid food as distinguished from drink b: the edible part of something as distinguished from its covering (such as a husk or shell)

OOTH Merriam-webster is changing definitions faster than the wind change direction...