Hi, I think you should not try to sell yourself as a Data Scientist. I have worked for many startups and in the past they felt they needed to hire a data scientist, however many of them are expected to be able to do data engineering/ devops. Automation with AWS/ Azure in addition to running their analytic workloads in whatever the latest and greatest is at the moment. Eventually the companies do not see value on that role and i have seen those rolls being chopped. If you know data engineering and manage full analytic pipelines in aws, and automation with terraform , cloudformation that will open up the doors for many roles. Hope that might give you some idea on how to market yourself here :)
Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
21–30 of 39 posts
Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#22if getting to 2-3x pay by converting the USD->CAD then you have to convert the COL into CAD and it's much lower in Canada than the US. If you don't convert either then it's maybe just slightly cheaper in US, though in the markets where 2x non-converted comp exists, the COL is still probably higher.
You get 2-3x the pay without converting. The median salary for a senior in Toronto and Van right now is around 150-170 TC, and that is generally the type of salary you're getting from the FAANGS here. Some might push above 200k, but you need to be exceptional and do very well in the interview. There is a reason Canada's top grads leave to the US right away. The CoL is lower in America. It might be comparable if you t…
Yeah, I guess we're getting a bit off track, but go into a US grocery store in one of your target markets and the prices will not look different unless you convert, and then you'll see they are more expensive.
Daycare in the big tech centers, in areas with good schools, costs MORE than Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal before converting. Since we've be here for a family our experiences with healthcare haven't been that different than Canada (normal checkups, 1 delivery in Canada 1 delivery in US), except that we've paid 5-10K per year in out of pocket + another 5K in premiums per year.
Finally - if you go gown on TN, if you have a partner that's coming with you they can't work. And it's a long and annoying slog going from TN -> H1B -> GC. Just food for thought.
Anyways, when you're talking about tier 2/3 companies (especially non-tech) you're not making 300USD+ in US either, especially in secondary markets.
As someone who moved to Bay area to 'tier 2'company, initially as in SWE but now in MLE, the big benefits are the depth of the job market: it's not hard to find a high(ish) TC gig around here, and you can easily shift to another US tech center (which doesn't seem to happen as much in Canada) and the increased savings rate of converted CAD dollars we'll use in Victoria when we return.
Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#23Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
You get 2-3x the pay without converting. The median salary for a senior in Toronto and Van right now is around 150-170 TC, and that is generally the type of salary you're getting from the FAANGS here. Some might push above 200k, but you need to be exceptional and do very well in the interview. There is a reason Canada's top grads leave to the US right away. The CoL is lower in America. It might be comparable if you t…
Yeah, I guess we're getting a bit off track, but go into a US grocery store in one of your target markets and the prices will not look different unless you convert, and then you'll see they are more expensive. Daycare in the big tech centers, in areas with good schools, costs MORE than Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal before converting. Since we've be here for a family our experiences with healthcare haven't been that diff…
Yes I've researched all this. My partner is TN eligible as well. And yes, dollar figure costs are same, that's exactly my point. CoL from a magnitude is the same when exchange is excluded, but salaries are higher and more opportunities. I exclude exchange because I would earn USD in America. And yes, this is why I'm targeting Tier 2 companies. If CoL is the same when thinking dollar figure, if I got to bay area and earn 170-200k (lower end for senior), and eventually make shift to areas with lower CoL overall and lower salary, fine so be it. Maybe I'll find my way into a Tier 1 eventually with enough Leetcoding. Point is the market is so much bigger in the US and so many more livable metros than Canada.
Also on the note of daycare, unless you manage to get into subsidized daycare (impossible essentially), you're paying 2k minimum a month.
And as for healthcare, the best deal is living in low or no income tax state. That is the ultimate goal long term. Even Cali vs. Ontario or Van, taxes overall a bit lower. At least the premiums you pay for get you high quality superior healthcare.
Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#25Best of luck. Even applying from within the US to Data Scientist roles takes quite a while to get through. At least compared to a few years ago organizations are providing rejections rather than simply ghosting.
Yes, I think the DS market in general got hit since it's a nice to have for most companies, or most companies have no idea what their DS groups do anyway and were just jumping in on the hype. Also there is a glut of talent from bootcamps and cert programs because every newspaper posted an article in the last 5-10 years about how Data Science is the hot new career where you get a six figure salary for showing up. This…
Organizations defining their roles is certainly a challenge. Quite a few roles don't know what their focus is and other roles constrain their search to the point that the job requirements are practically a circular dependency. I'm on the research side of the equation which falls under the data science umbrella which is partially covered by ML engineer, but not fully IMO. Personally, working with data there's a ton of older EE derived DSP+image processing ideas which are great but the recruitment process overlooks with how the roles get built. Having the solid math background is something that seems lacking from anyone exposed only to very high level frameworks or bootcamps.
Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I guess we're getting a bit off track, but go into a US grocery store in one of your target markets and the prices will not look different unless you convert, and then you'll see they are more expensive. Daycare in the big tech centers, in areas with good schools, costs MORE than Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal before converting. Since we've be here for a family our experiences with healthcare haven't been that diff…
Yes I've researched all this. My partner is TN eligible as well. And yes, dollar figure costs are same, that's exactly my point. CoL from a magnitude is the same when exchange is excluded, but salaries are higher and more opportunities. I exclude exchange because I would earn USD in America. And yes, this is why I'm targeting Tier 2 companies. If CoL is the same when thinking dollar figure, if I got to bay area and e…
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Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#27Hi, I think you should not try to sell yourself as a Data Scientist. I have worked for many startups and in the past they felt they needed to hire a data scientist, however many of them are expected to be able to do data engineering/ devops. Automation with AWS/ Azure in addition to running their analytic workloads in whatever the latest and greatest is at the moment. Eventually the companies do not see value on that…
Anecdotal experience from someone reading through a lot of DS job postings. There are plenty of roles which present red flags of them being something which would morph into something akin to devops/general-analytics. It seems common for roles to require wearing a few hats including data engineering in order to get work done (I consider that 100% normal unless you're targeting a large+mature organization), but so far getting an idea of the general direction of a role seems not too challenging.
Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I guess we're getting a bit off track, but go into a US grocery store in one of your target markets and the prices will not look different unless you convert, and then you'll see they are more expensive. Daycare in the big tech centers, in areas with good schools, costs MORE than Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal before converting. Since we've be here for a family our experiences with healthcare haven't been that diff…
Yes I've researched all this. My partner is TN eligible as well. And yes, dollar figure costs are same, that's exactly my point. CoL from a magnitude is the same when exchange is excluded, but salaries are higher and more opportunities. I exclude exchange because I would earn USD in America. And yes, this is why I'm targeting Tier 2 companies. If CoL is the same when thinking dollar figure, if I got to bay area and e…
I do not think 170k USD in SF is better than 170k CAD in VAN/TORONTO.
170k CAD in VAN/TORONTO isn't impossible to make for seniors.
Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#29if getting to 2-3x pay by converting the USD->CAD then you have to convert the COL into CAD and it's much lower in Canada than the US. If you don't convert either then it's maybe just slightly cheaper in US, though in the markets where 2x non-converted comp exists, the COL is still probably higher.
This is wrong.
The pay is vastly higher, accounting for cost of living differences.
Levels.fyi
Re: Ask HN: How Does a Canadian SWE/Data Scientist Make a Move to the US?
#30> Despite what the media wants you to think, Canada is not a good place to grow in IT and Software and ML. There's more to life than money, friend. Cost of living is not the only metric for quality of life. Safety, unity, sanity, these are all things Canadian cities have over the majority of American cities. I hope the increase in pay is worth it to you. For some of us, this is more than just a place to live and "gro…
Thanks for your thoughts but this isn't a helpful post. You're welcome to stay in Canada if you feel there are non monetary benefits you would prefer over a higher salary or more career growth.
I think that paying 50% of household income to cover basic shelter is absolutely absurd and a bad deal. It's financially impossible to start a family in a major metro here, and I'm a higher income earner. IMO that negatively impacts my quality of life substantially.
Beyond this, as much as Canada likes to bill it self as friendly and multicultural and paint the US as racist and mean, my personal experience has been quite different. Here I have witnessed the worst forms of racial nepotism I've ever seen. Entire teams of the same ethnicities all speaking the same language. I was hired into a team like this and was regularly excluded from lunches the team took to celebrate cultural holidays. Sorry, racism is racism.