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SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

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Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#61

Post by namibj »

oseityphelysiol wrote: post #44
japanuspus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The starlink antenna may look like an ordinarry satelite dish -- but it is a super-advanced phased array antenna which uses a lot of signal processing to electronically steer the beam. This electronic beam steering should have no problems keeping up with boat motion.

From what I gather beamforming operates only in limited range, i.e. tracking satellites as they move small fraction of a degree per second. For bigger adjustments the dishes turn mechanically. It's not clear if beamforming could handle relatively small waves, but for big ones mechanical adjustment would be needed. I'm speaking out of my ass, but if I had to guess moving the antenna mechanically would not keep the lin…

The beamforming is fast enough. It can probably steer at a few kHz of steering-bandwidth, if not more.

Yes, mechanical adjustment for big waves, but that's a simple passive 2-axis gimbal and having the center of mass slightly below the gimbal axis crossing.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#62

Post by jcims »

japanuspus wrote: post #37
csomar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a sailboat (even a big one) is not stable and from experience satellite receivers can lose connection on slightly strong winds. So I guess this wouldn't work even if Starlink allowed it.

The starlink antenna may look like an ordinarry satelite dish -- but it is a super-advanced phased array antenna which uses a lot of signal processing to electronically steer the beam. This electronic beam steering should have no problems keeping up with boat motion.

This is absolutely true as long as they built the IMUs and control loops into the software to do that. My guess is by the time the service is available for moving users that will be the case.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#63

Post by Tuna-Fish »

Someone wrote: post #48

Reading it cynically/critically/literally, one could interpret it as counting users, not customers (so a family of four sharing a link would count as four users). They also mention “thousands of customers”, so I guess that reading may be correct. Also, as to economics, Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink ) says there will be up to 30,000 of these satellites. Even if (from https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1…

Assuming they get Starship flying, yes.

30 paying customers over the 5-year lifetime of a satellite is $180k. This is more than the estimated cost of a satellite plus the cost of lifting it into orbit assuming they have a fully reusable launch vehicle.

However, even if they don't achieve that you are ignoring a rather important point: that is, most of the time the satellites are not over the US, and there are paying customers elsewhere, too. Even though the profit is not going to be as great elsewhere (generally, in most of the world you have to pay for spectrum, and the customers probably can't support as high a price), each Starlink satellite will spend roughly 50% of it's time within reach of a populated area it can serve. (Even over the southern pacific, with a low angle to the horizon the satellites will be in range of a populated island quite often.)

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#64

Post by dkarp »

darkhorn wrote: post #52
Someone wrote: post #48

Reading it cynically/critically/literally, one could interpret it as counting users, not customers (so a family of four sharing a link would count as four users). They also mention “thousands of customers”, so I guess that reading may be correct. Also, as to economics, Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink ) says there will be up to 30,000 of these satellites. Even if (from https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1…

Isn't Starlink's main customer the USA army?

Early on there was also a lot of talk about High Frequency Trading firms being a prime customer. Once they have inter-satellite laser links, the latency over large distances can be significantly less than via undersea fiberoptic cables.

I believe this is to do with the difference in speed of light in the cable and also indirect path that light takes as it bounces along a cable. Over inter-continental distances, the benefit is magnified.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#65

Post by mercora »

solarkraft wrote: post #56
kilroy123 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I mostly agree with you, as I too have traveled a lot (I've been to all 7 continents). I've been to many places with very poor internet. Still, I think you're missing one very important point. The likely biggest user of this system will be the US military and Department of Defense. Just how they use the iridium constellation, only phone calls aren't enough in the 2020 and beyond. They need the same system but w…

One customer I weirdly haven't seen mentioned is high frequency traders. Shouldn't Starlink's latency be lower than that of cables?

would that help them though? i mean it appears to me they are already as close as possible to avoid latency and use microwave links and stuff so that is pretty hard to beat i guess. the only thing i can easily imagine being beneficial is getting information across the globe faster but then i lack the skills to see how one profits from that, ie. being closer would still be better, no?

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#66

Post by paul_f »

dkarp wrote: post #64
darkhorn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Starlink's main customer the USA army?

Early on there was also a lot of talk about High Frequency Trading firms being a prime customer. Once they have inter-satellite laser links, the latency over large distances can be significantly less than via undersea fiberoptic cables. I believe this is to do with the difference in speed of light in the cable and also indirect path that light takes as it bounces along a cable. Over inter-continental distances, the b…

100% correct. Lower latency comms for HFT, worth a fortune.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#67

Post by paul_f »

irjustin wrote: post #21
pmontra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is for you, if you plan to move your boat: https://www.starlink.com/faq > Can I travel with Starlink, or move it to a different address? > Starlink satellites are scheduled to send internet down to all users within a designated area on the ground. This designated area is referred to as a cell. > Your Starlink is assigned to a single cell. If you move your Starlink outside of its assigned cell, a sat…

I can imagine this is only in the beginning. As more sats go up ships can easily be a lot of customers.

It has to change or it cannot be used by airplanes, which surely is a prime target for Starlink.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#68

Post by wj »

the_duke wrote: post #35
pmontra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is for you, if you plan to move your boat: https://www.starlink.com/faq > Can I travel with Starlink, or move it to a different address? > Starlink satellites are scheduled to send internet down to all users within a designated area on the ground. This designated area is referred to as a cell. > Your Starlink is assigned to a single cell. If you move your Starlink outside of its assigned cell, a sat…

Musk mentioned on Twitter that it should be doable. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1323691195239960579 I reckon the current restrictions will ease up when more sats are deployed, especially with more laser interconnects.

When this was announced I actually assumed this was a ploy to get fast Internet into Teslas.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#69

Post by adventured »

kilroy123 wrote: post #55
clon wrote: post #51

As an amateur astronomer and astrophotographer, I'm biased against the massive cost of the StarLink pollution fleet to our ability to gaze at the wonders above. I think the Vera C. Rubin Observatory is a much higher priority project for humanity, than StarLink. That said, I think Elon needs to travel the world a little more. Several of his attempts to solve purported world-relevant issues may be founded in limitation…

While I mostly agree with you, as I too have traveled a lot (I've been to all 7 continents). I've been to many places with very poor internet. Still, I think you're missing one very important point. The likely biggest user of this system will be the US military and Department of Defense. Just how they use the iridium constellation, only phone calls aren't enough in the 2020 and beyond. They need the same system but w…

> The math just doesn't add up.

Can you demonstrate that math in a comprehensive manner? I've seen this kind of claim repeated frequently and it's never supported.

> The likely biggest user of this system will be the US military and Department of Defense.

The biggest user of Starlink by an extreme margin will be consumers. It won't be a close comparison.

There will be at least a million consumers eventually using Starlink around the world. The network has capacity to handle that globally. The military is going to push that much data through Starlink? No they're not. A million consumers pushing HD video streams through it will rather comically outweigh anything the military will be doing.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#70

Post by virgilp »

mercora wrote: post #65
solarkraft wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One customer I weirdly haven't seen mentioned is high frequency traders. Shouldn't Starlink's latency be lower than that of cables?

would that help them though? i mean it appears to me they are already as close as possible to avoid latency and use microwave links and stuff so that is pretty hard to beat i guess. the only thing i can easily imagine being beneficial is getting information across the globe faster but then i lack the skills to see how one profits from that, ie. being closer would still be better, no?

Arbitration. If you can see an asset being traded cheaper in Australia than in the US 10ms before everybody else does - you basically pocket the difference at 0 risk.
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