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SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

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Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#51
As an amateur astronomer and astrophotographer, I'm biased against the massive cost of the StarLink pollution fleet to our ability to gaze at the wonders above. I think the Vera C. Rubin Observatory is a much higher priority project for humanity, than StarLink.

That said, I think Elon needs to travel the world a little more. Several of his attempts to solve purported world-relevant issues may be founded in limitations present in the US.

1) I have been to the jungles of Cambodia, trekked across Myanmar, stayed in villages of central Iran, driven across the deserts North Africa. Never have I felt deprived on good connectivity, even in the deserts of Iran. Everyone glued to their smartphones like everywhere else. And I had a pretty strong case of FB-itis myself back then. Where there is a human settlement, there seemed to be a connection. As an anecdote, I recall having Skype calls with my folks from the Shwedagon Pagoda - it had excellent wifi ~7 years ago. Walking across a salt lake one can and should expect to drop our for a while. The only exception I recall is some village in Tunisian Sahara where locals made a point of not being connected (mostly expats). Ksar Ghilane, perhaps?

How is it that in rural US there is no alternative to satellite internet? There seems to be some local systemic failure. The rest of the world will be left holding the bag, so that people do not have to dig down some cables in Arkansas.

2) Building the self-driving car. It already exists everywhere. It is called the metro, tram, bus, tuk-tuk, rickshaw, whatever. It exists, and works great, servicing billions and if you exclude the latter options, safe. But not in N.America, where you cannot even cross a street without a vehicle. Thankfully, this seems to only use up VC money, without any externalities for the rest of the world.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#52
post #48

Reading it cynically/critically/literally, one could interpret it as counting users, not customers (so a family of four sharing a link would count as four users). They also mention “thousands of customers”, so I guess that reading may be correct. Also, as to economics, Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink ) says there will be up to 30,000 of these satellites. Even if (from https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1…

Isn't Starlink's main customer the USA army?

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#53
post #14

I see comments on latency every so often when Starlink come ups. I would love some clarity on how satellite connectivity is expected to perform. Example: Streaming services will be great, but syn ack dependent SAAS apps have to be optimized for local cache and data retrieval? What ways are they looking to overcome latency? I could soap box, but this community is much smarter than me.

The satellites are very low altitude. They are not geosynchronous which would require them to be very far from the earth's surface. Instead they orbit at low altitude and the antenna base station uses a complex antenna arrangement (a phased array) to follow the satellites as they move rapidly overhead. Once the inter-satellite laser links are fully deployed, starlink will be the fastest way to ping a signal to the ot…

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Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#54
post #48

Reading it cynically/critically/literally, one could interpret it as counting users, not customers (so a family of four sharing a link would count as four users). They also mention “thousands of customers”, so I guess that reading may be correct. Also, as to economics, Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink ) says there will be up to 30,000 of these satellites. Even if (from https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1…

The requirement is to serve 600k customers

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#55
post #51

As an amateur astronomer and astrophotographer, I'm biased against the massive cost of the StarLink pollution fleet to our ability to gaze at the wonders above. I think the Vera C. Rubin Observatory is a much higher priority project for humanity, than StarLink. That said, I think Elon needs to travel the world a little more. Several of his attempts to solve purported world-relevant issues may be founded in limitation…

While I mostly agree with you, as I too have traveled a lot (I've been to all 7 continents). I've been to many places with very poor internet.

Still, I think you're missing one very important point. The likely biggest user of this system will be the US military and Department of Defense. Just how they use the iridium constellation, only phone calls aren't enough in the 2020 and beyond.

They need the same system but with broadband speed _internet_. They can not be dependent on some other nations infrastructure and there are a lot of boots out at a sea and places where there isn't a cell tower.

The math just doesn't add up. Mark my words, the StarLink system will never work or be profitable without the US Gov being a major customer.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#56
post #51

As an amateur astronomer and astrophotographer, I'm biased against the massive cost of the StarLink pollution fleet to our ability to gaze at the wonders above. I think the Vera C. Rubin Observatory is a much higher priority project for humanity, than StarLink. That said, I think Elon needs to travel the world a little more. Several of his attempts to solve purported world-relevant issues may be founded in limitation…

While I mostly agree with you, as I too have traveled a lot (I've been to all 7 continents). I've been to many places with very poor internet. Still, I think you're missing one very important point. The likely biggest user of this system will be the US military and Department of Defense. Just how they use the iridium constellation, only phone calls aren't enough in the 2020 and beyond. They need the same system but w…

One customer I weirdly haven't seen mentioned is high frequency traders. Shouldn't Starlink's latency be lower than that of cables?

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#57

Here is a link to some benchmarks: https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/i9w09n/list_of_co...

I'm not sure benchmarks on an unloaded beta system are extremely useful. Once they add more satellites it may go down, but more users counter that... It's decent early indicator, but hard to say long term if it's useful.

I joined a Starlink pilot program where there are 90 households within 3-4 miles of me that also got dishes.

I was one of the first to set it up, and since then haven’t noticed any decline in average/peak throughput or latency.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#58
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is for you, if you plan to move your boat: https://www.starlink.com/faq > Can I travel with Starlink, or move it to a different address? > Starlink satellites are scheduled to send internet down to all users within a designated area on the ground. This designated area is referred to as a cell. > Your Starlink is assigned to a single cell. If you move your Starlink outside of its assigned cell, a sat…

Supposedly it’s meant I work in airplanes and trains, so sailboats I’d imagine too. +/- constant swaying etc.

With a simple passive gimbal they should be able to use the electronic steering to correct for the remaining swaying on planes and boats.

Trains might have more issues with vegetation and geography obstructing clear view of the satellites.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The starlink antenna may look like an ordinarry satelite dish -- but it is a super-advanced phased array antenna which uses a lot of signal processing to electronically steer the beam. This electronic beam steering should have no problems keeping up with boat motion.

From what I gather beamforming operates only in limited range, i.e. tracking satellites as they move small fraction of a degree per second. For bigger adjustments the dishes turn mechanically. It's not clear if beamforming could handle relatively small waves, but for big ones mechanical adjustment would be needed. I'm speaking out of my ass, but if I had to guess moving the antenna mechanically would not keep the lin…

I have one, the dish doesn’t move after it initially sets up.

Re: SpaceX says Starlink now has over 10k users

#60

I don't understand why they are slow to roll it out. The world needs this service, NOW.

It’s not ready yet. They don’t have enough satellites in operation yet and as a result it goes offline for short spells throughout the day.

They are also estimated to be losing about $1900 per dish sold. I’m sure they want to get that number down before they really go into mass production.

Lastly, there’s going to be regulatory hurdles in every country they release in.

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