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New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

arstechnica.com

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Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#321

Post by MaxikCZ »

devwastaken wrote: post #224

This is the opposite direction for VR. We are at a prime time to be using algorithms that can read face gestures, track eye location, we need much better full body tracking. Users are happy with 2K per eye, but they're not happy on how nobody but Oculus Quest is making an affordable and well featured headset. It's even perfectly useable entirely wirelessly with Virtual Desktop. Apple has the arm tech to be making hig…

Wait, you asked all users?

Because 2k per eye seems enough until you realize that it gives you less than 20 ppd (pixels per degree), while 2560x1440 27'' monitor at 50cm gives you 40 ppd

To get same ppd on 27'' monitor at 50cm it would be 1111x625, for 24'' at 75cm its 700x400!!

My point is that while current ppd might be fine for some, its very low for anything that requires detail. Any small text or gauges or similar is simply not readable in VR while being crystal clear on FHD monitor, just because the field of view is stretched so wide in VR headsets.

You can say that small text isnt important in VR, but that would be dismissing the fact that small text and higher feature resolution can increase information density dramatically, which is always desired. After all, you aren't browsing this site on a screen with 640x480 resolution, are you?

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#322

Post by f6v »

CPLX wrote: post #319
f6v wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are social creatures Yes, humans evolved to live in groups. However, we did not evolve to live in huge cities, surrounded by millions of people and tall concrete boxes. That would scare the soul out of our ancestors. My point is that we can't always judge the technology by what's "natural" to us. Brain is extremely flexible, and children who grew up with VR might just want to live in it, instead of the "real…

> However, we did not evolve to live in huge cities, surrounded by millions of people and tall concrete boxes. Glancing around it seems quite apparent that we’ve done exactly that.

We adjusted our culture, but our brains are likely the same as they were before the mega-cities came into existence. My point is that we shouldn't necessarily judge the technology by what's "natural" to us, i.e. "VR isn't going fly because we're social creatures".

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#324

Post by epanchin »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #240
Balgair wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done a fair bit of AR/VR work in medical and industrial settings, I've always thought the 'killer app' of VR is not in gaming. It's this very weekend: The Super Bowl. Well, not the Super Bowl precisely, but in experiences like sports or other time/space limited events. Sitting ring-side for the next big match. Or at the 50-yard line at the Super Bowl. Or at the finish line of the 100-m dash. All for, I dunno,…

Ehh. I've owned a VR headset for a long time now, and I think many people underestimate how fundamentally isolating being in VR is. Humans are social creatures and unless you live by yourself and want to escape into VR, you're a lot more likely to enjoy watching the big game with friends and family so you can shoot the shit, and share the experience. Don't get me wrong... VR is and can be a lot of fun, but I just don…

If you do live alone, do you feel vulnerable using VR? Not being remotely aware of surroundings sounds like it has the potential to be disconcerting.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#325

Post by epanchin »

Balgair wrote: post #204
zepto wrote: post #95

Bear in mind that the iPad was rumored to cost >$1000 but then launched at $499. On the other hand it might sense to launch this as a pro-workstation for the usual kinds of task: architects, designers and engineers being able to visualize and interact with models directly in space. If they can make that affordable and usable for pro designers at every level, (which $3500 clearly would be), they will have a hit. A con…

Having done a fair bit of AR/VR work in medical and industrial settings, I've always thought the 'killer app' of VR is not in gaming. It's this very weekend: The Super Bowl. Well, not the Super Bowl precisely, but in experiences like sports or other time/space limited events. Sitting ring-side for the next big match. Or at the 50-yard line at the Super Bowl. Or at the finish line of the 100-m dash. All for, I dunno,…

Sounds like it would avoid the risk of motion sickness too, as your movement in VR would reflect movement in real world.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#326

Post by jonplackett »

Balgair wrote: post #204
zepto wrote: post #95

Bear in mind that the iPad was rumored to cost >$1000 but then launched at $499. On the other hand it might sense to launch this as a pro-workstation for the usual kinds of task: architects, designers and engineers being able to visualize and interact with models directly in space. If they can make that affordable and usable for pro designers at every level, (which $3500 clearly would be), they will have a hit. A con…

Having done a fair bit of AR/VR work in medical and industrial settings, I've always thought the 'killer app' of VR is not in gaming. It's this very weekend: The Super Bowl. Well, not the Super Bowl precisely, but in experiences like sports or other time/space limited events. Sitting ring-side for the next big match. Or at the 50-yard line at the Super Bowl. Or at the finish line of the 100-m dash. All for, I dunno,…

They've been trying to do this but they always put the 360 camera somewhere really dumb, like next to the goal (this is soccer I've tried it with) and just normal head height, so you can't actually see the game at all.

I agree if they put the camera somewhere cool, like right above the pitch kind of like god-view, that would be awesome.

Not sure I'd pay 3,500 for it though....

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#327

Post by 05 »

jonplackett wrote: post #326
Balgair wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done a fair bit of AR/VR work in medical and industrial settings, I've always thought the 'killer app' of VR is not in gaming. It's this very weekend: The Super Bowl. Well, not the Super Bowl precisely, but in experiences like sports or other time/space limited events. Sitting ring-side for the next big match. Or at the 50-yard line at the Super Bowl. Or at the finish line of the 100-m dash. All for, I dunno,…

They've been trying to do this but they always put the 360 camera somewhere really dumb, like next to the goal (this is soccer I've tried it with) and just normal head height, so you can't actually see the game at all. I agree if they put the camera somewhere cool, like right above the pitch kind of like god-view, that would be awesome. Not sure I'd pay 3,500 for it though....

Yeah, they should just put the cameras on the players' helmets.. (not sure if serious).

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#328

Post by disabled »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #240
Balgair wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done a fair bit of AR/VR work in medical and industrial settings, I've always thought the 'killer app' of VR is not in gaming. It's this very weekend: The Super Bowl. Well, not the Super Bowl precisely, but in experiences like sports or other time/space limited events. Sitting ring-side for the next big match. Or at the 50-yard line at the Super Bowl. Or at the finish line of the 100-m dash. All for, I dunno,…

Ehh. I've owned a VR headset for a long time now, and I think many people underestimate how fundamentally isolating being in VR is. Humans are social creatures and unless you live by yourself and want to escape into VR, you're a lot more likely to enjoy watching the big game with friends and family so you can shoot the shit, and share the experience. Don't get me wrong... VR is and can be a lot of fun, but I just don…

I agree about it not being the next big thing. But, for some people who are extremely introverted, it can be the best thing ever. I think it has a lot of therapeutic use, although underdeveloped.

I find it to be disorienting, relaxing, and exhilarating, like a drug. To me, gives me the feelings of nitrous oxide without the strange nitrous oxide sensation.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#329

Post by duncanawoods »

riggsdk wrote: post #59
jayd16 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem with foveation is its pretty noticeable and mildly annoying for not a huge gain.

It greatly depends on the techniques used for rendering. Current rendering engines are focusing on pixel perfection at every part of the screen as they don't know where you are looking. More and more games use a hybrid between path/raytraced effects and other shader effects that could benefit from knowing where the viewer is actually looking. Especially raytracing can get huge speedups from sampling less rays: https:…

> pixel perfection at every part of the screen

Current lenses have quite a pronounced sweetspot in the centre of the vision so high resolution is wasted at the edges.

"fixed foveated rendering" is supported with Oculus and implemented directly in some games to reduce resolution at the edges just without eye-tracking so you can notice it if you move your eyes instead of your head. There is also "dynamic fixed foveated rendering" to ramp up/down for the current rendering load.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#330

Post by jonplackett »

05 wrote: post #327
jonplackett wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been trying to do this but they always put the 360 camera somewhere really dumb, like next to the goal (this is soccer I've tried it with) and just normal head height, so you can't actually see the game at all. I agree if they put the camera somewhere cool, like right above the pitch kind of like god-view, that would be awesome. Not sure I'd pay 3,500 for it though....

Yeah, they should just put the cameras on the players' helmets.. (not sure if serious).

Haha, maybe I would pay 3500 for that...
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