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New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

arstechnica.com

71–80 of 465 posts

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#71
post #66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptop + magical AR/VR headset means you can always have your 3 monitor workspace, even at the coffee shop. Plus, you get fully private screens.

That sounds utterly unappealing. If I'm in a coffeeshop I have zero reason to want to cut off from the outside world. Otherwise I wouldn't be in a coffeeshop. Most of the reason I'd work in a coffeeshop is for an ambient social vibe. And for many things I do a 13" laptop screen is fine. (And I probably wouldn't feel comfortable being utterly cut off from the environment in an urban space.)

It might be better with AR, where you still get the ambiance but with virtual monitors.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#72
post #28

Apple CPU/hardware + Apple display technology + Apple software would easily justify the 3k price. And people would pay it. Not just because it's Apple, but because Apple has the means to vertically integrate the entire tech stack into a high end product that far surpasses what their competitors are capable of. Google Android software and Qualcomm hardware have been trying for a decade and still can't match Apple. So…

[deleted]

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#73
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds utterly unappealing. If I'm in a coffeeshop I have zero reason to want to cut off from the outside world. Otherwise I wouldn't be in a coffeeshop. Most of the reason I'd work in a coffeeshop is for an ambient social vibe. And for many things I do a 13" laptop screen is fine. (And I probably wouldn't feel comfortable being utterly cut off from the environment in an urban space.)

It might be better with AR, where you still get the ambiance but with virtual monitors.

I have no idea how that works with AR overlaying monitors on a physical worldview. So you're writing something overlaid on the view around the coffeeshop? The idea of AR is more to give a HUD that provides information about what you're looking at.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#74
post #63
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rumors indicate this to only being a transitionary product for AR. Sorta like a dev kit, but not named that way.

The future of AR is VR. With 8K screens you just redraw reality.

AR seems far more interesting long-term. Real-time information about what you're looking at. VR seems much more entertainment, architecture,etc. focused--games, exploration, etc. Which isn't small but not necessarily transformational.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#75
post #66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptop + magical AR/VR headset means you can always have your 3 monitor workspace, even at the coffee shop. Plus, you get fully private screens.

That sounds utterly unappealing. If I'm in a coffeeshop I have zero reason to want to cut off from the outside world. Otherwise I wouldn't be in a coffeeshop. Most of the reason I'd work in a coffeeshop is for an ambient social vibe. And for many things I do a 13" laptop screen is fine. (And I probably wouldn't feel comfortable being utterly cut off from the environment in an urban space.)

You should look into how the Hololens is able to display floating windows. You're not cut off any more than the physically equivalent monitor would obscure.

A full face headset would probably give off a socially isolating presence, at least today, though.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#76
post #9

I could see this as a virtual office, as some of the comments speculate. If I had a set of AR glasses that projected what appeared to be an 8K monitor on top of my dining room table, and integrated with my MacBook Pro for input / output, and that had batteries to last a workday, I’d pay $2K/$3K. Even more if it worked well at brightness levels I’d have in my backyard. Never mind gaming, mobile high-quality virtual of…

Tame your expectations.

I'm pretty sure Apple's gaslighting field has yet not found a way to bend laws of physics.

Everybody wants a sleek, everyday wearable device, without usability corner cases, but such are physically impossible to make.

Portability, visibility, usability. Choose one.

First, power requirements demand either external power, or extreme power austerity cutting into display, and graphics.

Recon Instruments had first really practical battery powered HUD goggles, and they barely lasted more than an hour in real life use.

The lowest possible power at which you can provide just any much rich graphics is 250mw — the lowest end of most energy efficient SoCs. Possibly, Apple can bruteforce it with 5nm custom ASICs, but not by much, 100mw at max possible with CMOS cells.

Even if you have a magic chip with hypothetical 0 Watt power usage, you will not improve the situation by much as your display will still eat at least 1W, or usually up to 2.5-4W if you use any waveguides.

Daylight visibility is essentially impossible without displays outputting at least 100000+ nits. There are no tricks around that, that's just physics.

There are very few technologies on the horizon which are physically capable of achieving anything better.

Monolithic devices are one, and only ones which can offer sub 1W power use at any much good visual quality.

But, they are very expensive to make. All existing makers are manufacturing on lab scales only. Getting manufacturing out of the lab, and into fabs is impossible without the process technology, getting out of the lab too. And this shortens the list of credible contenders to just 1 company in the world, and guess, it's nor Apple.

Third, even if you agree to a wired up design, where do you get 16k video from? Have you ever seen how thick DP 2.0 cables are?

How do you get latency down?

How do you make even simplest AR interactions not require the wearer to also wear a Quad SLI videogaming PC?

How do you transport 40 gigabits per second of video without having the I/O PHY eat more than the system itself? Only optics can do it under 1W.

Apple can surely put its silicon to good use here, but even a purpose made ASIC video system will be on the edge. It will limit them to the most basic graphics, and pretty much hardcoded, and handcoded use cases to extract maximum power efficiency, and workaround hardware limitations.

It will be a basic HUD, maybe with some GFX, and good video playback options. Essentially an Apple Watch, except you wear it on the head.

I bet they will intentionally limit its functionality to not to let users see performance limitations, and corner cases too often.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#77
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be better with AR, where you still get the ambiance but with virtual monitors.

I have no idea how that works with AR overlaying monitors on a physical worldview. So you're writing something overlaid on the view around the coffeeshop? The idea of AR is more to give a HUD that provides information about what you're looking at.

AR is commonly used to insert solid objects into the real world. See Pokemon Go and most HoloLens games. And the HoloLens app where a virtual dog lives in your house.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#78
Folks here are discussing the difference between AR and VR. My own take is that it's a difference of implementation. Quality VR with quality external cameras is going to give you a MUCH better experience than would AR glasses, and can of course do many things that VR glasses could not. I do think that AR glasses are much more practical and will have broader applicability. But perhaps not so much after a great VR implementation by Apple.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#79
post #74
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future of AR is VR. With 8K screens you just redraw reality.

AR seems far more interesting long-term. Real-time information about what you're looking at. VR seems much more entertainment, architecture,etc. focused--games, exploration, etc. Which isn't small but not necessarily transformational.

Like I said the future of AR is VR. People are already recreating their rooms and spaces in VR. Just extend that to wearing the device all the time. People dont want to see reality. They want to see their own version of it. Cloudy days become sunny days, etc.. etc..

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#80
post #64
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I mostly have zero interest in being immersed in meetings. Most people aren't IRL most of the time. There's potentially value where people need to be on-site in other contexts such as repairing equipment.

Laptop + magical AR/VR headset means you can always have your 3 monitor workspace, even at the coffee shop. Plus, you get fully private screens.

To do AR, it'll need a camera. People hated google glass because of the camera.
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