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HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

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Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#51

Post by dbreunig »

Some wishful thinking here...

> For one thing, the promise of being able to stream the ENTIRETY of the classic shorts could generate a tremendous amount of publicity for Max, in the process providing strong incentive for T&J collectors, animation fans, historians, and adults to subscribe to the new platform.

That is a very small audience compared to the very large audience of families who would be upset if the their kids auto-played into unexpected blackface.

Yes these problems can be solved with UX, yes it would be nice if we can access everything as it existed forever... But the reality is unfettered yet contextualized access to archival Tom & Jerry episodes isn't going to be high on their backlog.

For the purposes of access for historical archive purposes...why focus your complaints on streaming? Streaming is great for ease of access, cheaper price points (at least monthly), and breadth of selection. As a format, it's doesn't deliver well for archival purposes.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#52

Post by Veen »

5560675260 wrote: post #30
yters wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a right to everyone's IP who doesn't fit your expectations for reasonable access and price?

Personally I don't think that anything intangible can be property. And whenever I purchase something digital I consider the act to be a donation and/or payment for a service of delivery.

It’s an interesting attitude. Of course, if everyone thought that way most of the the things we buy digitally would never be made in the first place.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#53

Post by Miner49er »

garmaine wrote: post #48
Miner49er wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that goes down, you can always get 121 of the episodes off of the CIA's public archive of Osama Bin Laden's hard drives.

Seriously?

Yes. https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/index_video....

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#54

Post by [deleted] »

codyb wrote: post #39
me_me_me wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethics? I don't care too much if mouse company gets more money for their empire from me or not. Lets be real, that money more less goes to people that have nothing to do with people that create shows/content etc. But thats beside the point, I don't care much about it. I am adult, I earn money and at this point in my life my time IS worth money. If the effort/cost of watching a show it greater than firing up torrents,…

"Ethical/lawful or not I don't care" -me_me_me Parody? I'm not sure. Seems like an attitude I'm relatively happy isn't super common in society. If I make a book, I don't "owe you an effort" just cause you don't want to make it available in a format you'd like to consume. And that doesn't give you the right to steal it from me. Now certainly everyone should live under a set of guidelines, no one should be certain effo…

[deleted]

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#55

Post by wlesieutre »

jfk13 wrote: post #40
wlesieutre wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it ethical to sell a paperback and not an ebook in 2021 knowing that you're making it inaccessible to people who need larger font sizes to read it? Ebook readers are great for book accessibility, but if someone won't sell you an ebook it doesn't do much good. EDIT - I forgot to get to my point, which is that I have no ethical issue with "pirating" content in a better format if the creator (or rights-holder) has de…

Is it ethical to sell a paperback book and an ebook in 2021 and not provide a braille version, knowing that you're making it inaccessible to the blind?

Electronic text formats conveniently also work with screen readers and refreshable braille displays. The great thing about text data is you can display it in a whole bunch of different ways depending on a reader's needs, much more so than with a paperback.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#56

Post by reaperducer »

devmunchies wrote: post #34

Couldn't they just show trigger warnings for controversial content? Disney does this with old classics[1]. This is historical animation, I think it's worth showing an accurate snapshot of the past. [1]: https://imgur.com/dkMC6gd

Couldn't they just show trigger warnings

Or people could just grow up and realize that you can't judge people who lived a hundred years ago by today's standards.

Imagine what ordinary things you do every day that people a hundred years from now will consider a social crime and want you banned or cancelled for.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#57

Post by devmunchies »

khazhoux wrote: post #36

Mouse in Manhattan is a wonderful short. The storytelling, the pacing, and the orchestral score are magical. But there is the small issue of Jerry falling into a vial of shoe polish and then popping his head out -- in full blackface. Yup, that's not allowed today. I hope they just correct that (but without messing up the music) rather than outright ban it.

he accidentally falls in black dye though. Of course his face would be black. why is that bad?

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#58

Post by gonehome »

codyb wrote: post #39
me_me_me wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethics? I don't care too much if mouse company gets more money for their empire from me or not. Lets be real, that money more less goes to people that have nothing to do with people that create shows/content etc. But thats beside the point, I don't care much about it. I am adult, I earn money and at this point in my life my time IS worth money. If the effort/cost of watching a show it greater than firing up torrents,…

"Ethical/lawful or not I don't care" -me_me_me Parody? I'm not sure. Seems like an attitude I'm relatively happy isn't super common in society. If I make a book, I don't "owe you an effort" just cause you don't want to make it available in a format you'd like to consume. And that doesn't give you the right to steal it from me. Now certainly everyone should live under a set of guidelines, no one should be certain effo…

The OPs argument is bad/stupid, but there is a real argument to be made here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26028392

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#59

Post by khazhoux »

reaperducer wrote: post #49
khazhoux wrote: post #36

Mouse in Manhattan is a wonderful short. The storytelling, the pacing, and the orchestral score are magical. But there is the small issue of Jerry falling into a vial of shoe polish and then popping his head out -- in full blackface. Yup, that's not allowed today. I hope they just correct that (but without messing up the music) rather than outright ban it.

What is "correct" today will not be "correct" tomorrow. You don't reconcile history by pretending it didn't exist. 50 years from now, some young generation will decide that animal-sourced leather is a hate crime, and every movie you've ever seen will be banned to "correct" the social error of seeing shoes that aren't plastic.

Growing up, it was acceptable to shoot a Rodian before giving him a chance to shoot you.

But blackface is clearly prohibited today. So there's two choices for art like this: edit it, or it doesn't get shown publicly again. I'm only arguing that I'd prefer the former to the latter.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#60

Post by TeMPOraL »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #31
realityking wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of content is not available as streaming flat rates but via various rental or purchase platforms (iTunes, Amazon Video, etc.) There’s no (and there should be no) obligation to make things available for bargain dollars. If the publisher things the movie is worth a $15 dollar purchase or $8 rental, they can charge that. It’s our right not to watch it if we don’t think it’s worth that.

Arguably, there's no obligation to make things available at all .

But there is demand, and in many times, social interest.

I'very much in favor of some ruleset that compells the rights owner to either distribute something for reasonable prices[0], or make it available for redistribution and relinquish any distribution rights to it. This should apply to physical products as well - either sell it, or give blueprints to others.

--

[0] - reasonable meaning commensurate with other products in its category, and not e.g. $1,000,000 for a movie they want to suppress.

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