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Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

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Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#71

Post by mc32 »

tuxxy wrote: post #29
sthnblllII wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not an accident. Offshoring and immigration have killed the ability of labor to walk when given terrible choices like this.

Are you really coming on HN to try and blame immigrants for this? Do you know the kind of contributions immigrants have had in this industry? Do you know how important open immigration has been to the rise of tech?

There are different kinds of labor from immigrant populations, one is mostly brawn, the other is the one that brings brains (and conversely may cause brain drain in the source country).

That said, China has been successful (there are others) and have achieved success without this input. So I don’t think it’s a necessary ingredient. That said, talent improves economies. Imported labor (as well as automation) drives down labor costs and affects unskilled and semi skilled workers the most.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#73

Post by SerLava »

ggggggt wrote: post #63
deeblering4 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, a 4x10 would be workable if the hours fit roughly into a traditional household schedule. But 4x 1:20a-11:50a shifts per week would make it impossible to get your kids ready for school. And you'd be sleeping when it's time for dinner, or homework. Not to mention having time for a relationship with your spouse. Etc, etc. The shift they outline in the article sounds miserable.

You shouldn't be raising a family if you are doing bottomtier warehouse work.

You shouldn't be posting if you are doing bottomtier rhetoric.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#74

Post by gavin_gee »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #18
exmadscientist wrote: post #13

Serious question: if these jobs are so awful, and they do sound awful, why are people taking them? I can think of several possible answers, but I haven't the faintest clue which ones are (most) right.

Because the American middle class has been eviscerated by globalization, pandemic, etc and these are the best, er least bad, jobs available to many of them. They don’t have any leverage or bargaining power, collective or individual.

im not sure how minimum wage workers are being branded middle class here. These are minimum wage workers. unfortunately they will have less choices through lack of education and opportunity.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#75

Post by SerLava »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #11

American culture is optimized for consumers. When you're a consumer, it's a great thing: customer service, return policies, payment methods, and the entire process of buying stuff is leaps and bounds above somewhere like the European Union. When you're a worker, though, no one particularly cares about you. If a CEO can squeeze more profit out of his workforce by forcing them to work odd hours at the drop of a hat, he…

It's not optimized for consumers. It's optimized for the c-suite.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#76

Post by CyanBird »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #15
exmadscientist wrote: post #13

Serious question: if these jobs are so awful, and they do sound awful, why are people taking them? I can think of several possible answers, but I haven't the faintest clue which ones are (most) right.

...because most people don't get to be picky about their jobs. They take whatever they can get. Especially during a pandemic / economic crisis.

Even before the pandemic there were lines worth of people entering on these low quality jobs, this is not a consequence of the pandemic itself, it has just further highlighted the issue of service based economies and poorer wages/standard of living for working class people in higher income countries

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#77

Post by serjester »

mey wrote: post #27
random5634 wrote: post #21

I actually left an early job because it didn't offer a 4x10. 4x10 is amazing. Your work days are your work days, but the extra day off is amazing. You can actually go do stuff. My own view - everyone should switch to 4x10 or at least have it as an option. Now I'm working crazy hours so all a dream anyways these days. Note 4x10 shifts are not new in warehousing (or even in mfg).

Is that better/worse with manual labor? In software dev, I tend to fluctuate how productive I can be for an extended period, so being useful (instead of just ass in seat) for 10 hours seems rough. Granted some days I go for 12 but that's unhealthy and mostly because I get into a groove I am not interested in breaking.

I used to work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week throughout my summers in college landscaping. Honestly wasn’t as bad as you’d think.

There was a shared camaraderie that you don’t find in white collar jobs that honestly made it pretty fun. Obviously not sustainable for someone with actual responsibilities but with that said I’d be far more miserable if I tried to pull that off in the office.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#78

Post by Arrath »

oflannabhra wrote: post #42
mey wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that better/worse with manual labor? In software dev, I tend to fluctuate how productive I can be for an extended period, so being useful (instead of just ass in seat) for 10 hours seems rough. Granted some days I go for 12 but that's unhealthy and mostly because I get into a groove I am not interested in breaking.

I’ve worked the following: 4x10 - desk job overnight 3x12 - desk job overnight 5x8 - manual job 4x10 - manual job 5x8 - desk job 4x10 beat 5x8, regardless of workload. I wish I could do it now.

Agreed, 4x10's are the best ever.

On one construction project the weather was much better than expected so we were allowed to start a new phase two months early, but the project manager only allowed us 40 hours/wk, so I put my crew on 4x10 and it was the best few months, the guys loved it.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#79

Post by Dma54rhs »

dominotw wrote: post #43
kleiba wrote: post #8

That would be illegal in Germany: your regular work hours must not exceed 8hrs per day.

my current job is 3*10. That won't be allowed in germany ?

Pretty sure it would be, just have to pay more for the extra hours. I'm not a German but it would be surprising if it's any different than the rest of the EU countries.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#80

Post by dusyshhhdudu »

FrozenVoid wrote: post #22

US is reverting to early 20th century labor market norms, thanks to 'gig' economy and megacorps subverting unions. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/22/tech/amazon-nlrb-union-el... Only thing missing is union-busting Pinkerton thugs... https://www.npr.org/2020/11/30/940196997/amazon-reportedly-h...

As a gig worker I hope it stays, gig work has been a massive quality of life improvement for me. I think if the unions want to compete with us that's fine but the state shouldn't get to pick the winner.
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