Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal • Hacker News Board

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#71

Post by roywiggins » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

quenix wrote: post #63

est31 wrote: post #41

In the long run, starlink will make it even harder for autocrat regimes to censor the internet. Russian authorities already try to ban connections to Starlink.

Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to criminalise owning Starlink terminal equipment. Also, Starlink may be legally forced to deny service to users in certain geographical regions.

Iran's been having a tough time shutting down illicit satellite receivers.

> One woman in the Iranian capital, whose satellite dish was demolished by the police several months ago, told "Persian Letters" that the first thing she did the day after her apartment complex was raided was order a new dish and receiver.

> "That's the only fun we have here. There's nothing worth watching on [state television]," she said. "They can come and take my dish away. I will get a new one."

https://www.rferl.org/a/persian_letters_satellite_dishes_ira...

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#72

Post by ignoramous » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

sergiosgc wrote: post #62

Signal should be federated. This censorship problem would not exist, or would be organically routed around, were the service federated. Without federation, Signal is just another stepping stone in the long path of eventually abandoned instant messengers, all the way back from ICQ. We will get to an SMTP-like protocol, and email-like service, at some point. If not Signal, some other one.

Signal was federated at one point: https://lwn.net/Articles/687294/

Moxie, one of the original authors of the Signal protocol, said federation severely restricted flexibility and so they had to move on: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11668912

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#73

Post by danenania » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

djl0 wrote: post #69

If Iran is blocking Signal but not other apps, namely Whatsapp, does this mean Iran has access to Whatsapp data? I fully expect the US govt to have access to fb/whatsapp data (at least the metadata), but it's a bit surprising to me that Iran would too.

I think FB’s policy is to comply with local laws regardless of ethical concerns?

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#74

Post by WookieRushing » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

sergiosgc wrote: post #62

Signal should be federated. This censorship problem would not exist, or would be organically routed around, were the service federated. Without federation, Signal is just another stepping stone in the long path of eventually abandoned instant messengers, all the way back from ICQ. We will get to an SMTP-like protocol, and email-like service, at some point. If not Signal, some other one.

I’m not so sure. Moxies reasons about how federation leads to protocol development slowing and then freezing are solid.

It’s why we re not using smtp for chat. SMTP can’t be extended enough so replacements are built instead. Similarly if signal federated, eventually it would freeze and a few years later users would move to wherever they could get new features.

Federation is a good thing but only when the protocol is finished or if there is a forcing mechanism to allow updates to the protocol. ethereum/Bitcoin are good examples as they have flag days that force the value of currency to be in the balance to keep the protocol moving forward.

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#75

Post by harg » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #33

What happens when Iran's government itself runs a bunch of these proxies?

If all the traffic going via the proxies is e2e encrypted is there much that can happen?

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#76

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

polishdude20 wrote: post #35

mholt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the trick isn't it: having an entire population know something an oppressive government doesn't. Even if you teach everyone how to deploy their own servers, then that's the knowledge the government will start targeting. You can make blocks expensive, i.e. blocking other major, useful services that would disrupt society too much for them to want to deal with, but this of course has its own costs. It's censorshi…

At some point, the easier option is for there to be a revolution or some sort of governmental change.

Easy to say when it is not your life or your families’ lives at risk.

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#77

Post by eeZah7Ux » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

turminal wrote: post #12

awestroke wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to either use such a decentralised service or fork signal and add decentralisation / federation. Centralised services get more users by having a lower threshold of adoption.

What's the purpose of signal? Is it taking over the world or providing a service to people that care about their privacy and free (as in freedom) communication?

Creating yet another walled garden.

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#78

Post by MayeulC » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

Hmm, looks like these are just a few nginx rules, they might as well publish those.

Internet is a bad fit for this. I wish everyone was using yggdrasil, I2P, tor or something similar.

I mean: I could provide as many yggdrasil addresses as I wanted to. It would be possible to setup a few VPNs to connect separate networks (though potentially traceable).

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#79

Post by benlivengood » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #73

djl0 wrote: post #69

If Iran is blocking Signal but not other apps, namely Whatsapp, does this mean Iran has access to Whatsapp data? I fully expect the US govt to have access to fb/whatsapp data (at least the metadata), but it's a bit surprising to me that Iran would too.

I think FB’s policy is to comply with local laws regardless of ethical concerns?

There are a few requests reported:

https://transparency.facebook.com/government-data-requests/c...

Re: Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal

#80

Post by ParanoidShroom » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

djl0 wrote: post #69

If Iran is blocking Signal but not other apps, namely Whatsapp, does this mean Iran has access to Whatsapp data? I fully expect the US govt to have access to fb/whatsapp data (at least the metadata), but it's a bit surprising to me that Iran would too.

I doubt it. By the same reasoning they would also have access to iMessage and other apps that aren't banned. Not sure what WhatsApp or fb has to do with this.