Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#41

Post by dimatura » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #35

dimatura wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with these workers. But if this can be seen an indictment of American culture, then all in all, maybe things aren't so bad. I worked a construction job for a summer in Chile where we had 12-hour shifts, 5 days a week, and every week we alternated between day (8am-8pm) and night (8pm-8am) shifts. And I had it easy, because I lived close to the site - a lot of the other workers had 1+ hour commutes each wa…

Except America, the most dominate economic power in the history of the world, should be compared with other first-world developed countries, not Chile. Having the American middle class move backwards is not exactly an accomplishment.

Yeah, I agree. Hopefully labor conditions can improve in the rest of the world as well.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#42

Post by oflannabhra » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

mey wrote: post #27

random5634 wrote: post #21

I actually left an early job because it didn't offer a 4x10. 4x10 is amazing. Your work days are your work days, but the extra day off is amazing. You can actually go do stuff. My own view - everyone should switch to 4x10 or at least have it as an option. Now I'm working crazy hours so all a dream anyways these days. Note 4x10 shifts are not new in warehousing (or even in mfg).

Is that better/worse with manual labor? In software dev, I tend to fluctuate how productive I can be for an extended period, so being useful (instead of just ass in seat) for 10 hours seems rough. Granted some days I go for 12 but that's unhealthy and mostly because I get into a groove I am not interested in breaking.

I’ve worked the following:

4x10 - desk job overnight

3x12 - desk job overnight

5x8 - manual job

4x10 - manual job

5x8 - desk job

4x10 beat 5x8, regardless of workload. I wish I could do it now.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#43

Post by dominotw » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #8

That would be illegal in Germany: your regular work hours must not exceed 8hrs per day.

my current job is 3*10. That won't be allowed in germany ?

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#44

Post by thatguy0900 » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

random5634 wrote: post #21

I actually left an early job because it didn't offer a 4x10. 4x10 is amazing. Your work days are your work days, but the extra day off is amazing. You can actually go do stuff. My own view - everyone should switch to 4x10 or at least have it as an option. Now I'm working crazy hours so all a dream anyways these days. Note 4x10 shifts are not new in warehousing (or even in mfg).

For a few glorious weeks in a past job I managed to work 2x16 1x8, yeah those days really sucked but you get a 4 day vacation every single week.i don't think any employer would want to offer such a schedule but I would probably be willing to take a paycut to get it back.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#45

Post by detaro » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #8

That would be illegal in Germany: your regular work hours must not exceed 8hrs per day.

It can be contractually set to exceed 8h if the average of 8h is maintained (I think over 4 months for daytime work and 1 month for night work).

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#46

Post by deeblering4 » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

random5634 wrote: post #21

I actually left an early job because it didn't offer a 4x10. 4x10 is amazing. Your work days are your work days, but the extra day off is amazing. You can actually go do stuff. My own view - everyone should switch to 4x10 or at least have it as an option. Now I'm working crazy hours so all a dream anyways these days. Note 4x10 shifts are not new in warehousing (or even in mfg).

Sure, a 4x10 would be workable if the hours fit roughly into a traditional household schedule.

But 4x 1:20a-11:50a shifts per week would make it impossible to get your kids ready for school. And you'd be sleeping when it's time for dinner, or homework. Not to mention having time for a relationship with your spouse. Etc, etc.

The shift they outline in the article sounds miserable.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#47

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

asiando wrote: post #26

exmadscientist wrote: post #13

Serious question: if these jobs are so awful, and they do sound awful, why are people taking them? I can think of several possible answers, but I haven't the faintest clue which ones are (most) right.

Not everyone can be a professional. Companies like Amazon, Walmart and Monsanto squeeze out “mom and pop stores” so they can no longer compete and end up working for the man.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#48

Post by standardUser » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #40

standardUser wrote: post #36

This is a great example of how labor laws in the US are weak (deal with this sudden, dramatic change to your schedule or you're fired). It is also an example of how employers take great advantage of those weak labor laws. It is not, however, an example of how big corporations are evil. There's plenty of examples of that out there, this just isn't one. But for some reason is is surprisingly common for people to blame…

I don't do lots of bad things, even though I have the legal right to do so. Is it so much to ask the same of Amazon?

Yes, it is too much to ask a corporation to sacrifice it's own self-interest to be nice. That is why every nation in the world has thousands of laws regulating economic activity.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#49

Post by seneca » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

exmadscientist wrote: post #13

Serious question: if these jobs are so awful, and they do sound awful, why are people taking them? I can think of several possible answers, but I haven't the faintest clue which ones are (most) right.

The prospects of low-skill American workers have been devastated by globalization, mass immigration from countries with lower standards of living, the destruction of unions, and the centralization of business into huge corporations.

They have extremely low bargaining power against their bosses when ten people are scrambling to happily take their job after they're fired. Most other jobs are equally bad, so while they can leave it's often trading one bad job for another.

Re: Amazon Is Forcing Its Warehouse Workers into Brutal 'Megacycle' Shifts

#50

Post by throwaway3699 » Thu, Feb 04, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

tuxxy wrote: post #29

sthnblllII wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not an accident. Offshoring and immigration have killed the ability of labor to walk when given terrible choices like this.

Are you really coming on HN to try and blame immigrants for this? Do you know the kind of contributions immigrants have had in this industry? Do you know how important open immigration has been to the rise of tech?

You guys can both be right (and I believe you are). Instead of attacking the GP, why not find middle ground?

Population growth could be changing the ability to easily get a low skilled job, but I personally believe offshoring is the biggest issue. There's simply less places to go.

Anecdotally it used to be super common to walk out of a job on Friday and find another by Monday. We need that back for the sake of worker's rights.