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Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

colorfulwolf.com

61–70 of 158 posts

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#61
post #25

The way I understand bitcoins might be flawed but would certainly appreciate clarification ... My problem with bit coins is that early people who start mining have a greater advantage than later ones. While that's not the classic definition of a Ponzi scheme (in the classic definition, payouts at each round are funded by new participants), it is a feature bitcoin shares with them. If someone started mining bitcoin wh…

So you're saying its like the housing market?

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#62
What you're proposing is a cartel of users who agree to only use 1% of their computing power. The Prisoner's Dilemma still applies and thus the incentive to cheat still remains because using more than 1% can give you a competitive advantage. By assuming every one will compete as much as they can the prisoner's dilemma disappears because there is a limit of how many resources a user can expand. The main issue is whether bit coin is a valid expenditure of those resources

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#63
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those things are true. But I still am not seeing any points raised in the discussion here that haven't already been made in any of the countless other discussions that have already played out here on HN in the past few weeks. It's not that Bitcoin isn't new and interesting-- it is-- but that there is nothing new and interesting to say about it today that wasn't said (here) yesterday.

I didn't see any Bitcoin discussion yesterday. To be blunt, you're doing more harm than good by complaining about the discussion. For every person that cries "dupe", there are ten more who are grateful for that dupe. Dupes are a good thing.

The top story for most of the day yesterday was about Bitcoin, actually.

And I'm not crying "dupe"-- it's not that people are re-posting an old article with evergreen content.

Instead, people are having the same conversation over and over again, making the same points, repeatedly. I don't think that's a good thing.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#64
post #25

The way I understand bitcoins might be flawed but would certainly appreciate clarification ... My problem with bit coins is that early people who start mining have a greater advantage than later ones. While that's not the classic definition of a Ponzi scheme (in the classic definition, payouts at each round are funded by new participants), it is a feature bitcoin shares with them. If someone started mining bitcoin wh…

If someone started mining bitcoin when it first started, they have a significant stash created by now

Some of the early adoptors of BitCoins have 1% of all the current BitCoins each.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#65
post #25

The way I understand bitcoins might be flawed but would certainly appreciate clarification ... My problem with bit coins is that early people who start mining have a greater advantage than later ones. While that's not the classic definition of a Ponzi scheme (in the classic definition, payouts at each round are funded by new participants), it is a feature bitcoin shares with them. If someone started mining bitcoin wh…

The situation is not much better with inflating fiat currencies. Those who are closer to the money spigot have an advantage over those who are further way.

It's no where near as pronounced with fiat currencies as it is with bitcoin. Only a few currencies have experienced this level of hyperinflation that bitcoin has (e.g. weimar republic, zimbabwe), and those currencies have failed.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#66
post #20

Isn't the waste also present even without bitcoin, too? Governments make complex laws and regulations in different industries. They do 'magic tricks' to make fiat currency appear and disappear. Banks do complex things to make a profit that largely do not correspond to creating real value for society. Competing companies do the same things, duplicating effort, mostly to make a profit. (e.g. Do we really need so many s…

> A large part of human endeavor is not about increasing value in the world, but rather increasing value for oneself, possibly with the side-effect of decreasing value for others. It's just the way we are.

It's not just the way we are, it's the way we are under capitalism.

But I agree that the wastefulness of Bitcoin is nothing compared to the waste caused by capitalism as a whole.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#67
post #31

So, when we waste our processing power on credits generated on limited supply by the Bitcoin network, it's a waste, but when we waste our time on acquiring credits created in limited quantities by the (Central) Banks it's okay. I guess the issue here is that calculated bitcoins don't contribute anything. The grid should be used for something useful such as folding proteins or even SETI for that matter.

Really? It seems like the computational power thrown at this is way less than the latest console game.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#68
post #6

Any system of checks and balances will have its price. Look at what we do with gold: we dig it from a hole in Africa, we transport it in other countries, we dug holes or build vaults and throw it there. Like Warren Buffett said, it has no utility, if Martians were to look at the process they would scratch their heads. Except for the guarantee of uniqueness. Which is one of the most powerful invariants against corrupt…

Gold also is usefull in the industry and electronics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Industry http://www.gold.org/technology/uses/

Gold's market value is far above what it would be if it wasn't used as a value store.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#69
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see any Bitcoin discussion yesterday. To be blunt, you're doing more harm than good by complaining about the discussion. For every person that cries "dupe", there are ten more who are grateful for that dupe. Dupes are a good thing.

The top story for most of the day yesterday was about Bitcoin, actually. And I'm not crying "dupe"-- it's not that people are re-posting an old article with evergreen content. Instead, people are having the same conversation over and over again, making the same points, repeatedly. I don't think that's a good thing.

If the conversation points are correct, then there's nothing wrong with making them.

As something like Bitcoin becomes more popular, people will naturally have questions and concerns. Should they search for the answer before asking? Maybe, but it doesn't really matter if they don't. People are free to downvote them for asking. But they don't, and the resulting conversation becomes interesting for those who haven't seen its variants, such as me.

You've been a member of HN almost as long as I have. Haven't you noticed the destructive effects meta-discussion has on articles? If so, why are you perpetuating it?

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#70
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except for the guarantee of uniqueness. There are a few more actually: gold is one of the least putrescible materials out there (it's one of the least reactive elements available and as one of the royal metals very few acids can attack it), it has a distinctive look, and it has a very high density (most denser metals were only discovered in or after the 19th century, and are generally more valuable) which makes it…

The idea that gold has no real value is bizarre.

"real value" is not very clear a concept.

Gold does not have much intrinsic value (not actually correct anymore, in our modern world gold is used quite a bit in industrial contexts): apart from being shiny, before the 19th century there wasn't much it could be used for. The vast majority of its value was extrinsic and pretty much arbitrary, in its use as part of monetary exchange systems.

The same can be said of diamond, by the way.

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