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Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

colorfulwolf.com

11–20 of 158 posts

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#11
post #9

> There is a solution to this problem. If someone releases a new Bitcoin client (and miners) that run on only 1% of the available processing power, and gets more than 50% of the network to adopt this new client, then total electricity costs drop would drop hugely No, because you can't cryptographically enforce that all compatiable clients use only 1% of their available processing power. If such a client took over the…

Or just use VMs, etc.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#13

Don't the miners provide network services as well? Like how real mines don't just take from the ground, they also co-exist with civilian infrastructure built to keep the miners alive and functioning, and in bitcoin's case, the mining rigs dually enable transactions?

Yes, "mining" is a bit misleading.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#15

Excellent article. I would only add that we're using a LOT of energy to create a fake (read: virtual) resource. The best part about virtual resources is that they don't use many real resources, but this one is the opposite. Granted, it's a 1-time cost, but as the article notes, it could be created with a much lower 1-time cost.

That's not quite true. Bitcoins cost virtually nothing to create, but you are only allowed to create them if you succeed at securing a block of transactions. All of the processing power used in the Bitcoin network is designed to verify the transaction chain and prevent double-spending. The bitcoins generated as a result are just a reward to compensate people for their energy and hardware costs.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#17
The same argument can be applied to gold: resources are being utterly and completely wasted on securing Fort Knox, let's shutdown it and store all gold on a lawn without guarding it.

Mining is securing the bitcoin network in the similar sense, as Fort Knox secures gold.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#18

The author misses the point. The security of the Bitcoin network (at least in terms of double-spending) is tied to the level of work required to generate a block. If everyone decided to use only 1% of their computing power, they'd use less electricity, but the Bitcoin network would then be 100 times less secure. When people talk about "wasting resources", it's an indication they don't understand how Bitcoin works. On…

The trick lies in changing the bitcoin protocol. If the majority of clients can agree on a way to use less resources, then that's what will be enforced by the network. If a new bitcoin client enforced a mandatory delay of one hour and invalidated blocks that were made before that one hour, we would effectively have added one hour of idle time to the network. This is not a solution, but it is a demonstration of how the protocol can be altered, as long as the majority agrees on it.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#19
post #7
post #4

This is just a "prisoner's dilemma". The alternative is that we trust everyone not to use their full ability to generate blocks. Obviously this would completely defeat the point of bitcoins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_dilemma

Yeah, that's why the only thing I could think of that would 'fix' this, is to release new miners that use less processing power, and a new client that only allows input from those miners. Even so, such a thing would be equally as difficult to introduce as, for example, a rule that would hand out 200BTC instead of 50BTC.

As other posters pointed out, someone would cheat and just get a client that used 100% and we'd be back to square one in a day.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#20
Isn't the waste also present even without bitcoin, too? Governments make complex laws and regulations in different industries. They do 'magic tricks' to make fiat currency appear and disappear. Banks do complex things to make a profit that largely do not correspond to creating real value for society. Competing companies do the same things, duplicating effort, mostly to make a profit. (e.g. Do we really need so many social gaming companies?) Companies also do other things that do not create real value (e.g. lobby politicians to gain political advantage).

A large part of human endeavor is not about increasing value in the world, but rather increasing value for oneself, possibly with the side-effect of decreasing value for others. It's just the way we are.

I don't think bitcoin's purpose is to aggravate or ameliorate this pervasive problem. To me, the point of bitcoin is to shift economic power from the circles of people who presume to rule the rest of us with complex economic policies and regulation that ostensibly keep the economy stable and growing.

With or without bitcoin, the 'waste' from competition still going to be there, and I have no reason to think that the adoption of bitcoin is going to increase the total amount of 'waste'.

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