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Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#61

Post by siquick »

xirbeosbwo1234 wrote: post #56
imgabe wrote: post #9

Just do away with tips. It's a terrible and stupid system. If you want to do it as a customer, go ahead, but it should never be considered as part of the employee's compensation. If people aren't willing to do the job for the hourly wage alone with no tips, raise the wage until they are.

I'm kind of intrigued by the opposite idea: extend the system of tips to everything . I'd gladly add a tip to many things I buy if I knew that it would go entirely to the workers and not one penny would go to the owners, managers, or executives. Tips are a kind of direct income redistribution. If I think someone deserves more money, I can directly give it to them. There's no middleman, no politics, and no stigma abou…

This should never ever be a thing. Buyers already pay enough tax as it is without another stealth tax that employers can take advantage of.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#63

Post by refurb »

sellyme wrote: post #42
refurb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a few friends in the service industry who prefer the tips model since the tips are often 200-300% of their base pay. If it switched to fixed hourly pay, they'd be taking a pay cut since there is no way their hourly pay would be $30/hr.

> If it switched to fixed hourly pay, they'd be taking a pay cut since there is no way their hourly pay would be $30/hr. Why not? I live in a country with no tipping culture and we have no problem paying service industry workers this much.

Let me guess Switzerland? $30/hr there is less than $20/hr in the US adjusted for COL.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#64

Post by deepsun »

lettergram wrote: post #53
imgabe wrote: post #9

Just do away with tips. It's a terrible and stupid system. If you want to do it as a customer, go ahead, but it should never be considered as part of the employee's compensation. If people aren't willing to do the job for the hourly wage alone with no tips, raise the wage until they are.

I don’t think you’ve worked a job where you got tipped, have you? It’s actually one of the few ways people can make a lot of money for doing a good job. What you describe punishes hard work, the people getting tips would hate it.

The best service I've seen in Japan. And they get offended by tips.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#66

Post by imgabe »

lettergram wrote: post #53
imgabe wrote: post #9

Just do away with tips. It's a terrible and stupid system. If you want to do it as a customer, go ahead, but it should never be considered as part of the employee's compensation. If people aren't willing to do the job for the hourly wage alone with no tips, raise the wage until they are.

I don’t think you’ve worked a job where you got tipped, have you? It’s actually one of the few ways people can make a lot of money for doing a good job. What you describe punishes hard work, the people getting tips would hate it.

Most jobs don't have tips. People working in them still manage to do a good job and many of them make a lot more than people in tipped jobs do.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#67

Post by maxerickson »

MattGaiser wrote: post #27
peteretep wrote: post #3

> The FTC alleges Amazon changed the way it paid drivers in late 2016, lowering the hourly rate and then used customer tips to make up the difference. Amazon continued to tell drivers they were receiving all of their tips, even after receiving hundreds of complaints from drivers, the agency said. How is this not simply theft? Why does this attract civil charges and not criminal ones?

Because they were receiving all their tips. They were not receiving the same pay as before. I suspect they played with words to make people think one thing instead of another.

The FTC uses flimsy words like "did not disclose":

In late 2016, the FTC alleges, Amazon shifted from paying drivers the promised rate of $18–25 per hour plus the full amount of customer tips to paying drivers a lower hourly rate, a shift that it did not disclose to drivers. Amazon used the customer tips to make up the difference between the new lower hourly rate and the promised rate. This resulted in drivers’ being shorted more than $61.7 million in tips.

Which of course isn't flimsy, they are saying that Amazon did not pay wages they had agreed to.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#68

Post by slumpt_ »

darwinwhy wrote: post #11
peteretep wrote: post #3

> The FTC alleges Amazon changed the way it paid drivers in late 2016, lowering the hourly rate and then used customer tips to make up the difference. Amazon continued to tell drivers they were receiving all of their tips, even after receiving hundreds of complaints from drivers, the agency said. How is this not simply theft? Why does this attract civil charges and not criminal ones?

> when Amazon steals $62 million from its employees it's "misrepresenting drivers' tips", when Amazon employees steal $130,000 of products from Amazon it's a "theft ring" ~ https://twitter.com/CitationsPod/status/1356779651885133825

Yep. Different rules and semantics for the rich.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#69

Post by mullingitover »

I would love to see the federal minimum wage exemptions for tipped workers removed. We're all of course going to roast Amazon for this unethical practice, but thousands upon thousands of businesses operate the same skimming operation on tipped workers in states that allow it.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#70

Post by maxerickson »

bagacrap wrote: post #16
naebother wrote: post #7

Always tip cash. > Amazon agreed to pay the regulator $61.7 million, the amount the FTC claims the company shorted its drivers in tips over a 2½ year period. Can the common man also get this kind of generous treatment from the law - just pay back what you stole and move on?

the legal fees and reputational damage make it not exactly free

If you are an asshole, the loss of reputation is a consequence, not a punishment.
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