Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
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Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#2For those of us who are not familiar with California's proposition system, have there been others like this that have been successfully challenged in court?
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#3Without getting into the merits of the whole are ride hail drivers employees thing, I do have close experience with AB5.
AB5 - union drafted, is an absolute unworkable travesty.
A key tell - for a "principled" law - they had to keep on adding so many carveouts and exceptions (and there are lots missed still).
I know folks - who are actively trying to do the right thing - tearing their hair out over AB5.
AB5 has really soured me on some of the labor rights stuff. AB5 is in no way a model solution - I hope other states can come up with more practical approaches - with some thought to the folks who just want a simple way to do the right thing without endless carveouts and classification arguments.
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#4Reminder, before the commentors come in and complain about the 7/8 reqirement for changing prop 22, Propositions can only be changed with another proposition by default.
edit: removed snarky ""
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#5Reminder, before the commentors come in and complain about the 7/8 reqirement for changing prop 22, Propositions can only be changed with another proposition by default. edit: removed snarky ""
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your reference to "commentors", but it looks to me like an insinuation of the sort that the HN guidelines ask people not to post:
"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
You've done that sort of thing more than once before. Please don't. If you think you're seeing evidence of abuse, obviously we want to know about that and will take a look if you let us know. But cheap accusations of manipulation are one of the worst, most widespread toxins degrading this place, so please omit those.
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#6For those of us who are not familiar with California's proposition system, have there been others like this that have been successfully challenged in court?
The most famous ballot prop ever struck down was Prop 187, passed (overwhelmingly) in 1994 and struck down as unconstitutional.
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#7Without getting into the merits of the whole are ride hail drivers employees thing, I do have close experience with AB5. AB5 - union drafted, is an absolute unworkable travesty. A key tell - for a "principled" law - they had to keep on adding so many carveouts and exceptions (and there are lots missed still). I know folks - who are actively trying to do the right thing - tearing their hair out over AB5. AB5 has reall…
Pretty much the history of labor rights :-)
One of the interesting language aspects of this debate are the differences between people who call it the labor market and people who call it labor rights. I read a great book on the history of the labor movement in the US (sorry I've forgotten the title it was a long time ago) and there was a great discussion between the point of view that governments manage rights and companies manage markets.
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#8For those of us who are not familiar with California's proposition system, have there been others like this that have been successfully challenged in court?
A big example would be Prop 8. After courts ruled there was a constitutional right for gay marriages, a slim majority voted to pass an amendment to the state constitution banning gay marriage. This was ruled unconstitutional by a federal court. It was really weird because at the time, gay marriage was not a constitutional right nationally, so the federal courts were essentially ruling "gay marriage doesn't need to be allowed in your state, but if it is, you can't take away the right".
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#9I do very much hope they win, but I can't see their strategy working (by definition a constitutional change overrides legislative powers). But IANAL.
If they do win it may positively affect certain other unreasonable constraints that won referenda.
Re: Prop. 22 faces first legal challenge as SEIU, ride-hail drivers file suit
#10Without getting into the merits of the whole are ride hail drivers employees thing, I do have close experience with AB5. AB5 - union drafted, is an absolute unworkable travesty. A key tell - for a "principled" law - they had to keep on adding so many carveouts and exceptions (and there are lots missed still). I know folks - who are actively trying to do the right thing - tearing their hair out over AB5. AB5 has reall…
A similar issue can be found in occupational licensure laws. Carve outs for everyone, and they keep coming. There is a serious effort underway to require a license for florists, interior designers, and hair braiders, and the exemptions and carve outs have gotten so bad that it’s hard to justify these licenses as beneficial to protect the public.