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Visa May Add Cryptocurrencies to Its Payments Network, Says CEO

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Re: Visa May Add Cryptocurrencies to Its Payments Network, Says CEO

#171

Post by colejohnson66 »

arcticbull wrote: post #169
colejohnson66 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they can’t have a surcharge , but they can just raise everything 10¢/gal then “discount” cash purchases. It’s the same thing, so why is one illegal but not the other? Not to mention that many government services charge an outrageously large “processing fee” (in the multiple dollar amount) for card purchases. They literally would rather I write them a check and go in person than just go online and use a card. How d…

> So they can’t have a surcharge, but they can just raise everything 10¢/gal then “discount” cash purchases. It’s the same thing, so why is one illegal but not the other? That was the case prior to 1666f. Now, both "credit surcharges" and "cash discounts" are permitted. It was just a perspective thing, card brands didn't want to have cards feel "disadvantaged" relative to cash. Instead they had cash "advantaged" rela…

Ah. I misread you. I thought you were saying card “discounts” were illegal, not that TOS against those kinds of clauses were illegal.

Re: Visa May Add Cryptocurrencies to Its Payments Network, Says CEO

#172

Post by tal8d »

machiaweliczny wrote: post #170
tal8d wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops, that is the other one - "digital gold". The litecoin people really latched onto that one, declaring themselves to be silver. There was already a digital gold a few year before bitcoin (something about an eagle, or the Liberty Bell...), it was a gold backed paypal that was quickly destroyed by the feds. So no, bitcoin isn't "digital gold".

According to Hayek fed wont ever allow such thing as long as they have power over it, so I'm not suprised. Maybe they don't have enough power over bitcoin?

They definitely don't, and it is no accident that they've maintained a state of uncertainty. After the B-cash hardfork created a potential taxable event, the IRS refused to release any kind of guidance or warning for how they'd classify things - and there is a massive difference between short and long term capital gains tax. But they can't outright ban it, because development would continue outside the country. It would be a crippling self inflicted wound, because there will be a strong need in the near future for what bitcoin provides. In a world of autonomous software agents (short of self aware AI), meat space money won't work - due to clawbacks and human deceit. They'll eventually try a push for some kind of Fedcoin, but that will turn out the same way it did when the Canadians tried it. Until then they'll continue mounting their resistance at the fiat interface points.

Re: Visa May Add Cryptocurrencies to Its Payments Network, Says CEO

#173

Post by imtringued »

GuB-42 wrote: post #126
lxe wrote: post #112

Have you used cryptocurrency for payments lately? Unless you want to pay $25 to wait 6 hours while your transaction is confirming, stick to venmo/zelle/paypal/etc... Unless, of course, you use places like Coinbase that pool transactions or bypass the network altogether, but then... what's the point of cryptocurrency?

That's the trick, Visa won't do cryptocurrency payment, they will do "fiat currency" payment indexed on cryptocurrencies. For example, you buy 0.1 BTC using euros, you then pay a merchant asking for 0.1 BTC, which he will withdraw as dollars. Noticed that neither the buyer nor the seller manipulate bitcoin. No address, no transaction on the blockchain. It shows bitcoin on your account but in reality, it was a euro to…

> If bitcoins raises in value, you get more dollars,

You have to pay taxes on that gain.

There is also the problem that people are unlikely to spend a deflationary currency if they can avoid it.

Re: Visa May Add Cryptocurrencies to Its Payments Network, Says CEO

#174

Post by imtringued »

Geee wrote: post #64
doggosphere wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat currencies will probably always exist. Digital crypto assets like Bitcoin or Ethereum will exist alongside them. Bitcoin can be an asset like gold, of which users keep a portion of their networth to protect from economic uncertainty. Its deflationary policy may make it less usable as a currency, but at least crypto gives people choice.

Deflationary policy makes it more usable as a currency. It means that you don't have to spend the money instantly, but you can save it for later.

Deflationary policy means that if you spend it today you lose out on future gains, so preferably you just don't spend it, ever.

Re: Visa May Add Cryptocurrencies to Its Payments Network, Says CEO

#175

Post by imtringued »

briefcomment wrote: post #113
shanecoin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this argument a lot and have a genuine question. How does Bitcoin electricity usage compare to something that achieves a similar goal? A good example is gold—many people compare Bitcoin to gold. What are the relative electricity costs of the two, and does that justify the cost of either asset? This would take into account the electricity costs of mining, labor, supply chain, storage, etc.

I think we should consider the possibility that Bitcoin greatly incentivizes saving and disincentivizes consumption, at least while prices are increasing as quickly as they are.

If people are unemployed or underemployed and you save regardless that waste of productive work doesn't reappear through magic in the future. It's just gone.

Re: Visa May Add Cryptocurrencies to Its Payments Network, Says CEO

#176

Post by nowherebeen »

arcticbull wrote: post #93
nowherebeen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think their rewards system is as valuable on you might think. When the cost of visa transactions are ultimately pushed to the consumer (~3%), they will eventually realize, those rewards are not worth the cost. Off course, this will probably take some time. But in my opinion, Visa's moat is thin and mostly reliant on the behavior of their users. For US, I expect Visa to still be dominant, but not so much in ot…

Visanet takes 0.1-0.2%, the rest goes to issuing banks to handle loyalty programs and loan origination and servicing. The value to merchants is a roughly 20% increase in average ticket size for card transactions, not having to handle risks associated with cash and crypto (theft and fraud respectively). For what it’s worth the bulk of the spread between processing fees and origination is returned to customers in North…

Do you know any good resources I can read up on this?
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