Put the kids under a tent (not fully enclosed) with some propane heaters in the parking lot of the school.
I mean it's a good idea, it's a fire hazard but still.
Tents have extremely simple evacuation procedures.
Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
141–150 of 196 posts
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#142This seems to be especially true with the UK variant, just today Australia had another transmission in hotel quarantine between people that shared the same floor and only opened the door to get food.
> The woman's husband, in her 70s, joined her in quarantine on January 16 and she decided to stay in the hotel with him for his 14-day quarantine period. During that time, a family of five arrived in Melbourne from Nigeria on January 20, and were placed on the same floor. The family tested positive on January 24, then the woman in the room opposite tested positive on January 28. Her partner has returned negative tests during his stay in the hotel - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-03/victoria-investigatin....
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#143In Sweden people continually blow their nose by holding one nostril and blasting the mucus from the other straight out into the air. Joggers of both sexes (but mostly men) do this all the time, even with other people all around them on the street. When I last got the subway an older guy did it on the platform, just before the train doors opened and the passengers walked out - presumably straight through the fine drop…
And in Australia they just sniff non-stop for 20 days straight until someone shoves a tissue in their face, then they pull a face of complete disbelief "Oh, thank you!"
as someone who has had a runny/stuffy/inbetween nose for all my life, this feels too close. haha
btw, i don't really smell anything. probably always have only smekt like really strong odors or "hot" ones but no subtle smells. i dont ever remember smelling a flower or cilantro on food
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#144In Sweden people continually blow their nose by holding one nostril and blasting the mucus from the other straight out into the air. Joggers of both sexes (but mostly men) do this all the time, even with other people all around them on the street. When I last got the subway an older guy did it on the platform, just before the train doors opened and the passengers walked out - presumably straight through the fine drop…
Just replying to my own comment in case anyone comes back to this thread. I just stated a fact about ordinary behavior here in Stockholm, and got a few initial upvotes. I didn’t expect any particular reaction, as I wasn’t expressing any controversial opinion.
I’m therefore genuinely interested why all the subsequent downvotes?
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is strange logic... since we all are going to die anyway, we shouldn't worry about causes of preventable death? So i guess we don't need drunk driving laws... only about 10,000 people a year die in the US from drunk drivers, they were going to die anyway. The world keeps on moving. No reason to work on curing cancer. Dead someday anyway. Yes, death comes to us all. That has no bearing on whether we should work t…
I just looked up the CDC data and it says ~0.7% of the US population dies each year. Out of ~330 million people, that's 2.4 million people each year. So assuming that 400k figure is excess mortality, that means 17% more people died last year than normal. That is tragic, but the way it gets talked about, you would think we were at 10x or more.
I’ve been wondering if we’ll see a drop in deaths in the future too. A lot of the deaths are people that wouldn’t live much longer anyway. If 2 years from now the death rate is 17% lower we only lost an average 2 life-years of the 17% population, which is tragic, but is it more tragic for the other 99.3% of people to lose 1 life year because of that?
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just looked up the CDC data and it says ~0.7% of the US population dies each year. Out of ~330 million people, that's 2.4 million people each year. So assuming that 400k figure is excess mortality, that means 17% more people died last year than normal. That is tragic, but the way it gets talked about, you would think we were at 10x or more.
I’ve been wondering if we’ll see a drop in deaths in the future too. A lot of the deaths are people that wouldn’t live much longer anyway. If 2 years from now the death rate is 17% lower we only lost an average 2 life-years of the 17% population, which is tragic, but is it more tragic for the other 99.3% of people to lose 1 life year because of that?
For one thing, we lost 447,000 so far WITH all of the quarantining and shut downs... that number would have been WAY higher if we had done nothing. The hospitals would have been completely overwhelmed, and many who survived would have died.
Also, we did not ‘lose’ a year of life.
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They're very clearly making point estimates to contrast with the prevalent IFR estimates of the time (~2%), which we now know were entirely wrong. 0.01% (their estimate according to the post above) is far more "entirely wrong" than 2%. For instance, https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/112420_covidupdate.html mentions an estimate of 0.94% for Italy (in fact I have a hard time of viewing an early estimate 2% as signi…
An estimate of 0.01% is closer to what we know today than the ~2% estimates of the time. Current best point estimates for IFR are somewhere between 0.1%-0.5%, depending on population age. But IFR is so tied to age that it's unhelpful to compare it from country to country. One of the reasons Italy's observed fatality rate is higher than average is because of the higher average age of is population. The CDC's current b…
No. From the link I posted: "Infection fatality rates (IFRs) were higher in countries with older populations, such as Japan (1.09%, 95% Credible Interval [CrI] 0.94%-1.26%) and Italy (0.94%, 95% CrI 0.80%-1.08%), compared with countries with younger populations, such as Kenya (0.09%, 95% CrI 0.08%-0.10%), and Pakistan (0.16%, 95% CrI 0.14% – 0.19%) (Figure)."
That's 0.1-1.1%, not 0.1-0.5%. And the initial context was the USA, whose age distribution is more like (though noticeably different) Italy's than it's like Kenya's.
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Our early guidance that masks don’t help (because we needed to save the real masks for healthcare workers) I see this mentioned a lot, is this really a big factor? Did a ton of people genuinely begin the pandemic by believing officials and then after a few weeks start to disbelieve officials? That just doesn't make sense to me. I mostly see this issue used as a bad faith cudgel to justify not wearing a mask now, but…
I recall almost from the beginning that they said wear clothe masks even if made from an old tee shirt so that medical personal could have the limited PPE, NO ONE said "don't wear a mask because it does nothing" . Clearly that never happened, not ever, except in various "the virus is a hoax" online platforms. Some initial people said 6 ft distance was enough if not wearing a mask. I have been following this as close…
> NO ONE said "don't wear a mask because it does nothing" .
U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams tweeted in February 2020, "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can't get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!"
https://www.axios.com/surgeon-general-reversal-face-mask-d38...
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US’s observed CFR stands at 1.7% right now... plenty of first world countries with excellent testing are above 2%. I honestly am shocked people are still lying about all of this. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
CFR != IFR. A huge portion of infections in the US are never reported or detected. I can't believe people are still confusing these. Dividing fatalities by known cases is completely wrong, and is not the definition of IFR.
Strangely enough, though dividing total US deaths by the total US population gives a population death rate of 0.135%, and on a per-state basis 5 states are above 0.2%. That's a definite lower bound on the IFR and more-than-obvious evidence that neither 0.1%, or 0.01% are plausible IFRs.
Re: Coronavirus is in the air – there’s too much focus on surfaces
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like people have been saying this from the beginning. But no one can say for certain that there is little or no fomite risk, and hand washing and surface cleaning gives people something to do that helps them feel like they are in control.
But telling people to do something that's not known to reduce risk distracts people from doing the things that help the most. Instead of a store spending thousands of dollars on cleaning supplies and labor to disinfect floors and shelves 3 times a day, they could spend that money improving ventilation.
"Improving ventilation" isn't something you just order from the hardware website. You can't just fit a fan to a window to extract air and call it job done job done without studying how that changes internal airflows.
Does it address dead zones? Does it actually make matters worse by creating hot zones which coincide with areas where people concentrate? Does the exhaled air create risks to workers outside?
It requires a lot of study, planning and execution and lots more money than some cleaning supplies.