811–820 of 892 posts
At this point, Wayland looks like GNU HURD. Probably it is better, but the milestones keep shifting. I will stick to Xorg, since it supports tiling window managers better.
Curious what makes you say the last bit. This comment coming from a tiling Wayland window manager written by the author of the post (sway, drop in replacement for i3).
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KDE Wayland supports the Nvidia proprietary driver, Gnome Wayland kinda supports it but is still working on it. If/when Ubuntu switches from X for Nvidia users you won't have to go to the nouveau driver.
Okay, that's great. Thanks. I hope it won't break any of the video based flows: screensharing, screencasting, etc.
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I think a big issue is there's no discipline in the Linux community. The Kernel team has done an amazing job of preserving ABI compatibility through every last byte, but then you look at projects like glib or GNOME which seem to pride themselves on huge, sweeping, changes and don't care if downstream consumers are hurt by the changes. Edit: glib not glibc
> Edit: glib not glibc glib 2.0 was released in March of 2002, and has preserved ABI compatibility since then. https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-changes.html
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I do not agree all those are the same as rando OSS on github BTW. Because of that problem, I have always maintained we need a way to better fund some projects. I would love to see the display system funded and all the good stuff worked out properly. For me, the network features and general flexibility of X is worth some money. When I ran SGI machines, that money was paid and the display systems were flat out awesome.…
I believe there are still people maintaining paid X servers on Windows, on Linux not so much.
I used Exceed a lot. Exemplary. That program did everything nicely. I even used a CAD app on Windows that actually was built for X and it was network transparent same as any Unix box!
There is a sub $100 one out there. Maybe a bit more now. Maybe gone too. It was very good.
The freebies are respectable and great for sysadmin.
Funding a first class X11 replacement that also does some new things people want for mobile and embedded makes a ton of sense to me, and I would sign right up too.
Maybe getting a bunch of us tossing a tenner a month at this would fund a project that just gets it all done.
And we need one.
It is obvious to me X11, used as it can be, sees way more than anyone may have thought today. When I was on IRIX, X11 was flat out awesome. Shit just worked, and was fast, and 3D graphics over the wire smooth, fast, performant.
It took a long time for the rest to get there and when they did, nobody really grokked it, unless they came from a solid implementation.
And nobody from the PC, Windows camp got it. Did not even understand what an app server even was.
No fault here either. People saw what they saw, worked how they could work. I get that.
But today, people still saw what they saw, work how they work and ripping all that up is painful enough to not make sense.
If it did, we would have seen this go differently.
So maybe this should not be a volunteer effort. Matters too much to way more of us than I also believe was expected.
If we fund something thwt does what X11 can do and that also will do the new, spiffy, lean things people want today, we would have a killer environment.
Having that be OSS?
Worth it to me.
Or, we can watch the carnage for another decade...
Good discussion, BTW.
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That's funny, because for me, it's exactly the opposite. I use Gnome on Wayland/Mutter and it works great - I've never had a linux desktop that had such great UI rendering. Gnome on X doesn't work and is buggy - it's riddled with graphical glitches that other platforms (even smartphones and tablets) don't suffer from. How can that be considered to "work"? But my requirements are different from yours.
Both of you could be right, depending on the hardware sometimes GNOME w/ Xorg works better and sometimes it's the other way around.
It would have to rely on compositor and driver bugs in those other platforms.
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For systemd the consensus seems to be that's it's better than the previous init systems as most distributions have adopted it. I think the parent comment was alluding to the fact that RedHat has the ability to manufacture consensus. All the distributions use systemd (and pulseaudio and ...) because GNOME and other core components were modified to work only with systemd. So everyone agreed to use RedHat's way because…
What you are saying is a borderline conspiracy theory and is not true. GNOME still works outside of systemd, and the distributions that want to use it outside of systemd are maintaining the parts that they need, which in reality are pretty small. (I can give some more technical details if you want, but the short answer is: elogind)
You should also call them nazis, you know, just to strengthen your argument.
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That depends on if the precise argument is closer to "Wayland, as experienced by everyday users, is shit" or "Wayland, as a Platonic ideal, is shit." People, especially people trying to work done on their computers, usually mean the former.
Just say Mutter or Kwin are shit then. Saying Wayland is shit is like HTML is shit because you don't like Firefox.
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Okay, that's great. Thanks. I hope it won't break any of the video based flows: screensharing, screencasting, etc.
Gnome Wayland and KDE Wayland already have this figured out via xdg-desktop-portal-* and pipewire. 21.04 is going to try to do Wayland by default for non-Nvidia as part of a run up to enable it for all by default in 22.04 LTS.
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I've got the Manjaro CE version, so it should be new enough. I'm also not flush wish cash, so... Yah, I'll be buying diapers for my toddler, not a motherboard that may or may not work. It's a shame, 'cause I really like the concept, and bought it for myself as a birthday gift. Thought it would be a fun project to hack on.
Yeah, I hear you and I am sad that your unit probably has some issue.. perhaps writing an email asking for a replacement?