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Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

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Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Xorg] limitation is, that all screens have to have same DPI. The limitation is not true. Yes, the core protocol gives you a single, global DPI value. However, who cares about the core protocol? You have XRandR, which gives you a per-screen DPI. Alternative, you could have a freedesktop standard/convention where the DPI is stored as a global property of the root window, in a array of values, one for each display, s…

> Problem solved! Not so fast! Are you going to patch it to decade old binaries? How are you going to handle that Wordperfect from 1998? It certainly won't respect you new protocol. How the compositors are supposed to handle that? If you are not going to handle it, and just let it behave as it behaves today, you are still not achieving your goal of scaling all clients properly, and kind of throwing away that 30 years…

How are you going to change those decade old binaries to work with Wayland??? At least if you don't throw X11, those decade old binaries still work. If you throw X11, they will not!

You need to put in some type of kludge which is the reason this article exists in the first place (e.g. copy paste will work randomly).

And if the toolkit is linked dynamically, you are very lucky... Not to mention that a more realistic scenario is that you have to update a 20 year old toolkit to support multiple DPIs, in which case it is much easier if you just have to read the property from a different place rather than having to target a different display protocol entirely. You made the program vendors life easier at the cost of making yours harder...

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#182
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy sh... I've been battling this for YEARS now on X11. I'll try Wayland and see if it's better

If that doesn't why not get all high dpi hardware

My external monitor is 3440x1440. Equivalent HiDPI monitors didn't exist. Perhaps maybe they do now, but the pricing would be prohibitive.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox has treesyle tabs which has zero good alternatives on chrome. Tridacyl, vim like bindings for your browser + ability to bind javascript or native shell is more powerful than chrome alternatives. Chromium is losing google sync and chrome and chromium are Effectively destroying adblocking sooner or later courtesy of manifest v3. Ublock origin and treestyle tabs alone make a compelling case and are visually and…

TreeStyleTabs absolutely work but is crippled compared to what it used to be. In fact I asked yesterday and it was an interesting experience: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1332447#c170

You can get rid of the top tab bar is your user css file other than that it seems kind of identical in functionally to me save for the keybinding gui for it being in a different screen under extension bindings if I recall correctly

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#185
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox has treesyle tabs which has zero good alternatives on chrome. Tridacyl, vim like bindings for your browser + ability to bind javascript or native shell is more powerful than chrome alternatives. Chromium is losing google sync and chrome and chromium are Effectively destroying adblocking sooner or later courtesy of manifest v3. Ublock origin and treestyle tabs alone make a compelling case and are visually and…

Tridactyl is extremely quircky due to the limitations imposed to Web extensions though. I remember good old Vimperator to be more reliable. I get why they did it though, allowing extensions to effectively take over the browser sounds like a recipe for disaster. Too bad there isn't a way to opt into it when it's actually what you want.

It's limitations aren't really quirky it's extremely predictable that its bindings doesn't work on special tabs example reader mode

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#186
post #20
post #3

This is completely the opposite of my experience. I've been running Wayland on Pop OS since last year and it has been great. X11 had horrible tearing on external rotated screens - Wayland fixed that. Colour temperature changing works. Screensharing works just fine on Chrome and Firefox. I use it every day. Screen recording works with Gnome's built in recorder. I'm sure there are a few esoteric bits which don't work -…

> Firefox Firefox is quite buggy on Wayland, you need to set up some environment flags before launching it, and there's a trove of bugs still open for it. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635134 > I'm sure there are a few esoteric bits which don't work Like cut and paste between different kind of applications, which is an horrible user experience tbh.

> Firefox is quite buggy on Wayland

Is it? I moved to Sway (a Wayland WM) a few months ago, and run FF exclusively. Hell, I even run Firefox ESR (as provided by Debian), and I've noticed precisely one bug, and it's tiny: the main FF hamburger menu has a vertical scrollbar even if it's got plenty of vertical space left on the screen. Whatever, I use that menu once in a blue moon. Everything else is perfect!

What are you experiencing?

> you need to set up some environment flags before launching it

A single flag! Come on, this is hardly a problem.

> and there's a trove of bugs still open for it.

There's a trove of bugs open for FF in general ;-)

> Like cut and paste between different kind of applications, which is an horrible user experience tbh.

What do you mean? It works fine for me. From FF to other Wayland windows, from other Wayland windows to FF, and to and from Xwayland windows. The only copy/paste behavioral difference I've noticed on Wayland is that I lose the copied data if I close the source program. So when copying from FF, I can't close FF (as a whole, not talking about the window in question) before I've pasted. I can't see that this is an actual problem.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#187
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tridactyl is extremely quircky due to the limitations imposed to Web extensions though. I remember good old Vimperator to be more reliable. I get why they did it though, allowing extensions to effectively take over the browser sounds like a recipe for disaster. Too bad there isn't a way to opt into it when it's actually what you want.

I'm experimenting with Pale Moon now. It actuall feels snappier than the latest Firefox, but a profile reset on my main Firefox might change that (traditionally with my usage patterns there's little improvement to be seen from that.) So for now the advantages of Firefox vs Chrome are: - not Google - less RAM usage - slightly better extensions And for Palemoon vs Firefox: Pro Palemoon: - snappier (?) - extensions work…

Firefox me robot wasn't a real threat to your security whereas security holes patched in firefox but not palemoon certainly are.

Your browser is your number one vulnerability and you have selected poorly.

https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use...

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#188
post #19

> Wayland solves no issues I have This is a common sentiment, but it is kind of funny. Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but fail to see why these things are useful to them personally when the tables turn. Wayland indeed “breaks a lot of shit” but it’s not an accident or done due to incompetence. Als…

Though as developer you should already be aware that programing against 1- different incompatible targets is extremly painful, so why the hell they did not implement a Wayland server too, is seems a cheap excuse "wayland is just a protocol, all the issues are in the implementation you use".

I am expecting someone would comment that browsers are a good example, and my answer is go check the contenteditable and for example how text selection works and all the issues people had creating a rich text editor that works on all browsers using it.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#189
post #177
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (desktop devs) eventually gave up on it and are enjoying our Windows/macOS/Android/ChromeOS setups instead.

This would be more believable if there was a surplus of new Windows/Chrome OS desktop apps. Even macOS which is doing a little healthier basically gets a couple of indie commercial apps that people care about them. The rest of the new desktop apps are electron which doesn't care about X vs Wayland

There are plenty of desktop development jobs, broaden your horizons beyond indie shops.

Besides, tablets and laptops are desktops as well, specially when parked on a docking station.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#190
post #30

I really miss the network transparency in Wayland. Just being able to start a program on another machine through an SSH session is so useful. You can use something like vnc but a "whole desktop in a window" is slower and not as handy. I'm on freebsd mostly anyway which isn't big on the Wayland train so I'm fine for now. But it would be great if X11 development would be continued.

> You can use something like vnc but a "whole desktop in a window" is slower

Really? I’ve found x-forwarding much slower and annoying unless the host is on a LAN.

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