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Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

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Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#121

Post by canofbars »

DavidPiper wrote: post #35

There might be some good stuff here for Wayland devs, but otherwise seems to be mostly the usual dumpster fire (good for for roasting popcorn, though). Stopped reading at this gem from the OP a long way down: > For all the Wayland proponents here, why argue in places like this, wouldn't it be a better use of your time to send PRs to fix things like MaartenBaert/ssr#431 and vkohaupt/vokoscreenNG#51. Time perhaps to in…

>Hats off to the Wayland devs. We're cheering you from the sidelines.

Its pretty horrible how much toxic crap gets directed at the people who actually do all of the work. Just look at the amount of abuse has been flung at the SystemD developers from people who largely do not even know what it does.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#122

Post by arichard123 »

nkuttler wrote: post #11

As long as there are no replacements for tools like wmctrl and xdotool Wayland is not in a usable state for me.

I too use wmctrl daily to organise my windows as I switch between using a larger monitor docked to my laptop, back to my laptop screen. wmctrl allows me to move and resize all my windows as I require, all at once. I would find it very inconvenient not being able to "fix" my window environment easily, which I can with wmctrl.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#123

Post by knlje »

I wasn't even sure which of them I'm running even though I've been remote teaching for almost a year, i.e. frequently sharing my screen:

> [user@laptop:~]$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE

> wayland

Apparently it's not as bad as it seems! However, now that I think of it, I haven't been able to share the entire screen and must add one application at a time to OBS. Maybe I've gotten used to this. At least I won't accidentally show something that I'm not supposed to.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#124

Post by nly »

roenxi wrote: post #36

Wayland represents an interesting and possibly classic software situation - a beautiful standard has been developed. It blocks the user from using a screenshot application in the name of security. Now when the standard gets rolled out kludge will be developed to allow users to still take screenshots. The beauty of the standard will be compromised or everyone will spend a bunch of time pretending the kludge isn't de-f…

Taking your example of screenshots... I don't think there's an 'official'/defacto Wayland protocol for that. Under GNOME Shell you can use the org.gnome.Shell.Screenshot dbus API, but under KDE you presumably have to use something else. It is pretty grim.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#125

Post by oytis »

dataflow wrote: post #52
elric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc Reducing technical debt by rewriting everything from scratch (almost?) never works. It's the baby and the bathwater. It's the sort of thing that seems attractive to junior developers, but more seasoned folks know that the legacy system contains years of embedded knowledge and workarounds for "real world" issues. The new, conceptually beautiful system…

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...

This is why you need tests, otherwise you're stuck with your legacy forever.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#127

Post by michaelmrose »

tjoff wrote: post #13

Not much constructive here... I'm of the opposite opinion. Think twice before doing anything with X as the experience and knowledge you gain will soon be useless. Instead invest in wayland, it works great and will only get better and X will only get worse at this point. The pain points are few but yes, if you must have screen sharing with a particular app that doesn't work with wayland that might be a dealbreaker. If…

Something that isn't particularly good 12 years in will likely never be so. At 12 years in some really basic stuff is just now rolling in. In general the idea of natural progress is completely imaginary. The general nature of things is to get worse not better entropy always wins.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#128

Post by Nursie »

canofbars wrote: post #92
rob74 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a complete outsider - ok, I'm a developer, but I haven't had the pleasure (?) of writing something that interfaces directly with Xorg yet - I have been reading for years about Wayland being the way forward and how Xorg is dragged down by a long history of dubious design decisions and features nobody needs anymore, and I was secretly wondering: if this is really the future of desktop Linux, why doesn't it gain more…

>if this is really the future of desktop Linux, why doesn't it gain more momentum? Nvidia is the major blocker here and there is very little wayland devs can do to fix this. Fedora has actively discouraged using the proprietary nvidia driver for a while now and they ship wayland by default since the open source driver works fine. I saw that ubuntu is also shipping wayland by default soon for amd and intel users.

How is the open source driver when it comes to compute and 3d gaming?

Just interested if it works OK.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#129

Post by Nursie »

izacus wrote: post #8
edent wrote: post #3

This is completely the opposite of my experience. I've been running Wayland on Pop OS since last year and it has been great. X11 had horrible tearing on external rotated screens - Wayland fixed that. Colour temperature changing works. Screensharing works just fine on Chrome and Firefox. I use it every day. Screen recording works with Gnome's built in recorder. I'm sure there are a few esoteric bits which don't work -…

Not to mention that mixed DPI screens work! I'm using Ubuntu 20.04 on an XPS13 and can finally have different scaling factors between the internal HiDPI screen and external normal DPI screen without awful issues.

Is this a huge deal?

I have screens with different DPI attached to my linux machine running X/nvidia. A bit of futzing around with xrandr had it sorted.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#130

Post by pjmlp »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #81
jchw wrote: post #19

> Wayland solves no issues I have This is a common sentiment, but it is kind of funny. Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but fail to see why these things are useful to them personally when the tables turn. Wayland indeed “breaks a lot of shit” but it’s not an accident or done due to incompetence. Als…

I haven't seen many desktop apps emerging in the last decade, so whom is that "legacy is holding back the Linux desktop" argument addressed at? X may not be the most modern architecture, but it's still the API almost all F/OSS desktop apps are ultimately written and tested against. For many apps, wayland doesn't bring a new perspective, but end of life with no new apps taking their place. For other apps, wayland mean…

We (desktop devs) eventually gave up on it and are enjoying our Windows/macOS/Android/ChromeOS setups instead.
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