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Me and ADHD

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Re: Me and ADHD

#381
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. > Stimulant drugs do improve the ability (even without ADHD) to focus and pay attention. One function, which is reliably improved by stimulant medications, is sustained attention, or vigilance. Stimulants improve sustained, focused attention, but “sel…

> I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. Then why do you think stimulant medications were ever approved for adhd treatment? Of course they were work differently for people with and without adhd. For people without adhd the stimulant medications do not treat the adhd. If you try to sort of isolate out that part of it... what are you expecting to find?

This is like saying “for people without hypertension blood thinners don’t treat the hypertension”.

Stimulants will help anyone focus, ADHD diagnosis or not.

To refocus the conversation, the specific trope I see again and again is “stimulants will make a person with ADHD calm and a person without ADHD hyper”, which I do not believe is true. If there’s a paper that provides evidence for that I’d still love to see it.

Re: Me and ADHD

#382
lol. I find it interesting that ADHD makes for such a vogue discussion. The first paragraph describes me since I could remember. Call it what you want tho, it is what it is, and most of the world doesn’t care what you cannot focus on.

Just because other people have easy time doing boring work tho, why do we call this “attention deficit?” Why not call it “boring works sucks, and distractions are awful,” or whatever.

The best most interesting people I know all (probably) have adhd. It’s kind of a good thing, or the world would be very boring.

That’s all. Just a thought.

ps. As I am reading other comments, many focus on how other people have perceived them as better/easier after medication. But my question is, why do you care? I mean, 9 people will think you are nuts. So, hang out with the one that doesn’t? Seem better than taking meds for something that is “normal,” for a small percentage of the population. Why not give meds to the other people? :p

Re: Me and ADHD

#383

A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people. I've spoken with many people on stimulants, and none of them enjoy taking the medication, beyond what it has done to improve their lives. Furthermore, most ADHD people develop tolera…

I'll echo this; I'm a serial founder who was diagnosed with ADHD in his mid-forties. The stimulant medications do not make me "high", do not provide any kind of buzz. Rather, they have a moderating effect. Explaining this requires correcting the misunderstandings in the public realm of how adult ADHD presents, but in nutshell: * The (largely mental) hyperactivity is controllable, that is, I retain my creative ideas g…

I've learned never to take concerta when I'm tired, it will make me extremely sleepy and I'm liable to sleep the entire day (which is not necessarily what I want on days I have something very important to do).

I'm an extremely light sleeper and always had a very hard time falling asleep, so my guess is that concerta quiets down my brain enough that the chronic lack of sleep catches up on me.

Re: Me and ADHD

#384

I am trying to manage my ADHD sympthoms naturally. I don't believe that I should take stimulants until I have my lifestyle habits in order. I found that sleep quality is the number one metric that determines the level of ADHD sympthoms I experience. I do yin yoga before sleep every day, and have fully quit caffeine. I also make sure to not eat at least 4 hours before bed and to not look at any screens 1 hour before m…

I think I have mild ADHD, but I don't need to take meds if I have these life habits that greatly helped me.

* sleep as you mentioned

* omega 3 and multivitamins (including vitamin D)

* exercise in the morning if possible then on the evening if not possible.

* no strong lunches ( eat something that energizes you but for a long time, lately I have been eating just cooked beans and the energy I get from that is very stable and durable, beans is so cheap and so nutritious ) this avoid lethargy feelings after lunch

* not too much coffee not too less, Coffee does help but too much, it actually increases the chatter in my brain.

* One of the latest things I applied is pomodoro and daily TODO, this I feel solved for all my adhd problems. Keeping focus is an habilitie that you can train, forcing to be focus for 25 minutes is a good enough time. I get more work done and get less at the end of the day.

Re: Me and ADHD

#385
ADHD, OCD, ADD etc are not things you can have - these are disorders, a collection of symptoms, diagnosed by consensus (no real objective testing that can validate that a patient has this disorder, its a questionnaire).

I can say that having a purple hair and sleeping less then 6 hours a night is a Purple Hair Sleeping Disorder (PHSD).

Bottom line is, we have no real idea what are the actual physical and mental causes - what is the REAL illness, the pathological anomalies - that ADHD is the symptom of, and accepting ADHD as a THING means we are not digging deeper to find the real cause.

And as a side note - the DSM (which defines ADHD), once defined being gay as a disorder (and hence treatable).

Re: Me and ADHD

#386
Genuinely trying to understand ADHD here (I'm really open, have no aggressive intentions, ready to put empathy to use, might have ADHD or other issues myself, I still don't know. I am driven by scientific curiosity). A few questions:

- What are the symptoms? I read here that some argue that they cannot do menial tasks or get up from bed, others get up at 5am regularly or are exceptionally able to do chores. Some can't achieve anything in their life, losing one job after another, others are serial entrepreneurs and feel like having superpowers. I am confused by the broad and (apparent?) conflicting set of symptoms.

- How does the "evolution over time" of ADHD look like? What I mean is: is it a condition that "starts with you" since when you are born, or does it "begin" at some point, like a normal illness? Likewise, can it end? Can you heal from that? Can it be reduced? And in the "in between part", if you were to graph its intensity/presence, would draw a constant(ly high) line? Or are there periods of higher and lower intensity? If so, what is their frequency? And if you were to draw only the segments "controlled for other confounding factors", for example ignoring big impactful events like big successes, personal losses, breakups, particularly happy or particularly bad relationships (even long ones), periods of medication or drugs, turbulent hormonal teen years, periods with second jobs or complete lack of jobs, how would the graph change? I had up and down periods, mostly long downs (even years) and short noisy high frequency ups. Often I was able to identify the causes behind the intensity of my mood (identifying does not imply solving), and I wonder how this time series looks for everybody else, and if and how ADHD people's curves are different from the cluster of "normal" curves.

- What are the tests that are used to assess and quantify it?

- Any scientific study on the effect of various medication on people with ADHD and without? I'm particularly interested in the reported effects for "normal" people in control groups. The effects of some medicines that I often see described sound wonderful: stability, being able to focus, being able to do what is useful (chores, big projects), stopping train of thoughts, etc. Disregarding the fact that, much like with symptoms, it looks like the effects are wildly varying, overall they seem impressively useful, and I ask: are there reasons why anyone would not want improved focus, cognition, productivity and stability? Some of these drugs are indeed famous for being (ab)used by students or even workers, in some parts of the world, to push through stressful times. Why wouldn't and shouldn't everyone have access to those? And, related to this, how does one recognize that they may not be 100% genuine and objective with perceiving and describing their ADHD symptoms to a doctor, but maybe one is exaggerating something unconsciously just to get to those miraculous meds?

- How do you explain (or, better, do you have any paper that explain) the differences in the percentages of diagnosed cases throughout the world (thus, differences over space) and during the last decades (thus, differences time)? Is the incidence naturally different in different countries? Has it naturally changed over time? If so, was that due to a change in other causing factors? Or, more worryingly, did the way of diagnosing it change in time / is different across the world? If so, do you think (or have papers about) the current criteria for diagnosis are accurate and precise (identify the "true value" and with low variance) and uniform? Or is there still work to do? Maybe in 100 years they could have mutated into disgnoses for 10 different more specific disorders, that "our ancestors [we] thought it was just one thing", maybe the disorder won't exist anymore like hysteria evolved from the 1800 to today, or maybe they won't change that much.

- Same question as the above one, but on differences in treatment (over time and across countries). Any anecdotes on people being diagnosed in a rest-of-the-world (non-US) country? Was your experience similar to the ones you read about, from American fellows? Were your symptoms and treatment different? I am particularly interested in hearing more from the rest-of-the-world, being from a non-US country myself. It's hard to understand how much one is in a bubble of American experiences and anecdotes, when reading from the internet. For example, I never even heard in my country the word ADHD. My only experience is from reading about it on the English-speaking part of the Internet. Never heard stories of hyperactive kids taking medicines, or students or adults being prescribed stimulants to push through. I am sure such cases exist, but from my experience these things are just "not in the culture". For almost all the people I know from my country it would be unthinkable to even consider a hyperactive kid to be something to "medically treat". I'm not saying I come from a place where kids with problems are not treated, on the contrary, kids with autism, dyslexia, learning impairments, all sorts of disorders, are followed and given the attention they deserve. I'm just saying that the perceived threshold in the public opinion for what deserves medicines seems to be wildly different than the American one, when it is applied to hyperactivity (or hypoactivity, lack of motivation, etc) and to adults. (I'm from a big country in Europe).

I hope my questions don't come out as provocative. I acknowledge the ignorance in them, because I am ignorant (unknowing) on these topics. And that is the reason I want to find more (and help people like me to understand better). I appreciate any scientific study, paper, or any article with sources that you can offer. Thank you :)

Re: Me and ADHD

#387

> hard time focusing on things that I don’t like or want to do Not trying to be insensitive, but doesn't that describe everybody? At what point does difficulty motivating yourself to do something unpleasant become an actual pathology? I identify with a lot of the symptoms he lists, but I've never thought that meant there was anything "wrong" with me, I thought everybody felt that way. Are there really people out ther…

I didn't get diagnosed until my late 20s, so I feel like I can articulate some of the differences. One of the things that contributed to that is that I am incredibly lucky in that math, statistics, and computer science are the things that most capture my interest. It never really manifested itself in my school work until now, graduate school, where things become a lot more open-ended and self-driven. I need increment…

Saving this comment as a reminder of how my brain works.

Re: Me and ADHD

#388

lol. I find it interesting that ADHD makes for such a vogue discussion. The first paragraph describes me since I could remember. Call it what you want tho, it is what it is, and most of the world doesn’t care what you cannot focus on. Just because other people have easy time doing boring work tho, why do we call this “attention deficit?” Why not call it “boring works sucks, and distractions are awful,” or whatever. T…

> As I am reading other comments, many focus on how other people have perceived them as better/easier after medication.

People don't give me money unless they perceive me as valuable. That is pretty important for me. Also I care about delivering on my personal projects for my own sake. Other than those two I don't care what others think.

Re: Me and ADHD

#389

ADHD, OCD, ADD etc are not things you can have - these are disorders, a collection of symptoms, diagnosed by consensus (no real objective testing that can validate that a patient has this disorder, its a questionnaire). I can say that having a purple hair and sleeping less then 6 hours a night is a Purple Hair Sleeping Disorder (PHSD). Bottom line is, we have no real idea what are the actual physical and mental cause…

How does "Accepting ADHD as a thing" mean we're not digging deeper? Would it help if the collection of symptoms were totally disregarded? Since Cancer was discovered, has investment declined? How can you begin to ask if there's nothing to ask questions about?

Side note: Most governments and most people didn't look too highly upon homosexuality, and we don't know everything about it, but things have changed and we haven't invalidated everything that said something different than we currently believe.

Re: Me and ADHD

#390
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. Then why do you think stimulant medications were ever approved for adhd treatment? Of course they were work differently for people with and without adhd. For people without adhd the stimulant medications do not treat the adhd. If you try to sort of isolate out that part of it... what are you expecting to find?

This is like saying “for people without hypertension blood thinners don’t treat the hypertension”. Stimulants will help anyone focus, ADHD diagnosis or not. To refocus the conversation, the specific trope I see again and again is “stimulants will make a person with ADHD calm and a person without ADHD hyper”, which I do not believe is true. If there’s a paper that provides evidence for that I’d still love to see it.

> Stimulants will help anyone focus, ADHD diagnosis or not. ADHD patients suffer from hyperfocus and in some cases _need_ stimulants to snap out of this state. It is also about the ability when and which topic to focus on.

> specific trope I see again and again is “stimulants will make a person with ADHD calm and a person without ADHD hyper”, which I do not believe is true This statement is compacted and leaves out some things. I have a bad case of the inattentive adhd variant. With that came that I am really bad at filtering out sensory stimuli of any kind, sound, light, touch. They feel "loud" and prevent me from focusing for example on a conversation with a person. However stimulants increase my ability to tune out these distractions. For me stimulations were such a relieve after over 35 years to not be bombarded with sensory stimuli and finally being able to quieten this noisy mess, that made me a lot calmer - even when I am pausing medication for a few days. So believe what you want, me and others who take the medication are glad for the relieve it provides. However many websites use tropes you mentioned in a way that makes ADHD seem not very credible. It is important to differentiate between medical facts and for example websites that try to make people seek treatment by a healthcare professional. With such deseases often come secondary psychological problems that may cause a suffering person not to seek treatment. So some websites try to break through this barrier.

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