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A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

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Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#151

Post by laughinghan »

tjr225 wrote: post #108
SideQuark wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For most people the economy is not working for them. For most people in the world, they are quite a bit richer than their ancestors, even by 50 years ago. In fact, the number pulled from poverty over the past 50 years is astounding. Even in rich places like the US, the poor today are vastly richer than 50 years ago. Median wages are at all time highs as well. So how do you conclude "for most people" (which I take to…

Wtf? Who cares what the median wage is? People can’t afford health care or housing. Have you been outside in any major city recently? There is a homeless crisis that is truly shocking going on around all of us.

The recent spike in homelessness, the health insurance coverage gap, rising economic inequality, we are facing many major urgent crises. But there is a severe lack of imagination to suggest that our problems as a society or species can't or haven't been far, far worse.

A homeless woman today in any major American city (which generally require hospitals to provide emergency care even to people without health insurance) is safer giving birth than a queen a few centuries ago. A homeless person today in any major American city is safer from cholera, tuberculosis, any antibiotic-treatable disease than a king a few centuries ago.

Society and technology have made us much better off overall, it's not close. The fact that we still have major problems today does not contradict the fact that we have also solved some major problems, too, thanks to science and technology.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#152

Post by lamontcg »

rramadass wrote: post #145
wernst wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I'm reminded of this quote from Ernest Hemingway: “How did you go bankrupt?” “Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” Massive change due to tech is always just waiting to happen. Here's to hoping it just changes society without destroying it.

>“How did you go bankrupt?” “Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” Great quote! Gradually and unknowingly you approach a tipping point until some factor pushes you over the edge like the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". I believe Sale was/is broadly right. Some of Nassim Taleb's ideas also play into this viz. our inability to predict the future and the catastrophic effect of non-linear and "black swan"…

Yeah we're just likely to cruise along operating as "ABoringDystopia" until we hit some kind of fairly hard stop.

I don't know what that is going to look like though so I'm not taking any concrete bets. I certainly don't know what comes after.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#154

Post by ThankYouBernard »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #63
wait_a_minute wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be the case that socio-economic issues have worsened those things, not technology. And that we are not fully leveraging technology in order to improve lives.

I don't know if thats alway the case. People used to have liaisons, read books, play music together, go to church, play card games, garden, ride horses, and so on. Often surrounded by friend and family. Just seems like the quality of the average moment was better back then. The experience more authentic and often more social and more dangerous. For example if you liked to go out and play poker in a local bar in the 1…

> required actual poker skills, [...], and had an element of danger to it.

These are claims made with nothing to back them up. I think you've just watched too many movies.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#155

Post by darkerside »

glenstein wrote: post #37

A comment I made on this when it was posted a few days ago: I am surprised that this was regarded as a close decision. I guess a lot depends on wording, but when one person is predicting the dollar will be worthless, and the person in the role of judge claims that given global economic uncertainty, it's a "close" question, I wonder if they're just saying that to be diplomatic. Obviously there's a lot of uncertainty,…

No credit to Sale for denying victory to his opponent. I'm more disappointed than I thought I would be.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#156

Post by outworlder »

Bakary wrote: post #131
sircastor wrote: post #119

I’m reminded of a long bet made a number of years ago between Joseph Romm and Greg Blencoe that 1% of car sales in the US would be Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicles by 2015. I’d done a report on this in college and completely forgot about it, probably because hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are near impossible to find on the consumer market. So Blencoe lost the bet and paid Romm the $1000 and wore a T-shirt. He posted a very s…

Ironically hydrogen is having a renaissance as we speak

Only on Wall Street, which does not need to worry about actual physics or engineering.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#157

Post by vlunkr »

giantg2 wrote: post #100
vlunkr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, I've seen lots of people become more accepting because of the way the internet connects people. If you lived in a rural place before, you likely had very little interaction with minority groups outside of how they were portrayed in media. Now it's possible to interact with all kinds of people and recognize them as people instead of stereotypes. I don't deny that there are echo chambers and major co…

How does that work, like how does the connection get made and identity discovered? Generally I feel the echo chamber effect would be more common.

Well on more anonymous platforms like HN or Reddit it probably doesn't happen that much, but on youtube, instagram, twitter, etc usually identity is no secret.

This is just more of my opinion, but generally the people I know that get caught up in bad echo chambers would have done so without the internet. The Alex Jones fans are just a new iteration of Rush Limbaugh fans, albeit more extreme. I think it's possible for otherwise reasonable people to get caught up in something like that, but they can also get out with time and more life experience.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#158

Post by darkerside »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #102
sillysaurusx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understand that this is the norm. And understand that when you present differing opinions without being asked, you’re acting selfishly — you’re not doing it because you care about them, you’re doing it for yourself. Ultimately it depends what you want out of your personal relationships. I’ve found people who are willing to talk. But I haven’t found people who genuinely change their mind about deeply held beliefs with…

That's not what I am saying at all. I mean for the sake of conversation and discussion, asking to even explain a belief, for understanding. Sometimes even the question is seemed as a threat. I didn't say I want to change anyone's mind. Wanting to have a discussion about important topics with loved ones isn't an instant trip down selfishness lane. I see what you are saying, but you jumped the gun a little bit.

Based on what you've said, I get the same impression. If you want to connect with somebody, don't talk. Listen. Even if you "know" you're right.

As stubborn as you think those people are, they have a good case for arguing that you are just as stubborn if not more so.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#159

Post by op03 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #85
dimitrios1 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't get people I am close with to even consider engaging in conversations about firmly held beliefs they have if I even remotely present myself as possibly holding a different opinion.

Understand that this is the norm. And understand that when you present differing opinions without being asked, you’re acting selfishly — you’re not doing it because you care about them, you’re doing it for yourself. Ultimately it depends what you want out of your personal relationships. I’ve found people who are willing to talk. But I haven’t found people who genuinely change their mind about deeply held beliefs with…

Good job. And correct.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#160

Post by recursive »

vmception wrote: post #137
sircastor wrote: post #119

I’m reminded of a long bet made a number of years ago between Joseph Romm and Greg Blencoe that 1% of car sales in the US would be Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicles by 2015. I’d done a report on this in college and completely forgot about it, probably because hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are near impossible to find on the consumer market. So Blencoe lost the bet and paid Romm the $1000 and wore a T-shirt. He posted a very s…

I typically avoid the streisand effect by not reacting when something has attention, and then subsequently removing all references to it months later. Nobody important/loud enough notices.

My strategy is to never do anything noteworthy.
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