Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 452 posts

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#101

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

>but Sale, who for years had been churning out books complaining about modernity and urging a return to a subsistence economy,

It is generally men who talk about how great the subsistence economy was. For women, a subsistence economy was hellish. There was no reliable birth control, maternal/infant mortality was high, everything depended on physical strength which gave men an advantage due to their larger size and higher musculature on average, and the system demanded lots of children, so women spent much of their lives pregnant and/or caring for small children. Many of these cultures (see Papua New Guinea for example) have huge amounts of violence against women.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#102

Post by dimitrios1 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #85
dimitrios1 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't get people I am close with to even consider engaging in conversations about firmly held beliefs they have if I even remotely present myself as possibly holding a different opinion.

Understand that this is the norm. And understand that when you present differing opinions without being asked, you’re acting selfishly — you’re not doing it because you care about them, you’re doing it for yourself. Ultimately it depends what you want out of your personal relationships. I’ve found people who are willing to talk. But I haven’t found people who genuinely change their mind about deeply held beliefs with…

That's not what I am saying at all. I mean for the sake of conversation and discussion, asking to even explain a belief, for understanding. Sometimes even the question is seemed as a threat. I didn't say I want to change anyone's mind. Wanting to have a discussion about important topics with loved ones isn't an instant trip down selfishness lane. I see what you are saying, but you jumped the gun a little bit.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#103

Post by forgingahead »

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #95
forgingahead wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that this is the fault of tech at all. Facebook et al are still largely echo chambers, where we see what we have cultivated ourselves to see. Sure, recommendation algorithms show us external things once in a while, but by and large you can cultivate what you see on social media. The real culprit I believe, has been the incredible hysteria of the legacy media as it joined the social media spaces, and sta…

>I don't agree that this is the fault of tech at all. >The real culprit I believe, has been the incredible hysteria of the legacy media as it joined the social media spaces, and started their race to the bottom for clickbait and outrage porn. Covering inane tweets, and blowing them up to pretend that crackpot points-of-view have more weight and are more common than they truly are. Gotcha gonzo-journalism, that prides…

Tech didn't force anyone or any org to act maliciously. Either one chooses to uphold their own values every day, or they sway with the wind regardless of consequence, but either way the choice was theirs. If it was so easy to convince the so-called fourth estate to drop truth-seeking and fair coverage for clickbait, then it wasn't a core value to them in the first place.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#104

Post by shortandsweet »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #78
kumarvvr wrote: post #73

It destroyed the average Joe's faith in the average Joe. Now, people are more separated than ever, in their echo chambers, hating each other and firmly believing they are better and righter than the other.

I can't get people I am close with to even consider engaging in conversations about firmly held beliefs they have if I even remotely present myself as possibly holding a different opinion.

Same. I want to start a club of people like us. At a library with a coffee shop and bar included. Bunch of us philosophical peeps chillin and talking shit but nobody gets mad. I would love such a paradise.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#105

Post by 8bitsrule »

Better to live in a shallow but comforting dream, or in fuller knowledge of the world as it really is? To experience only a few things, or to discover that there are more things than we dreamed of?

We were near-sighted, then we put on glasses. We're sharing a time of adjustment. 25 years isn't enough. What do the young say?

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#106

Post by hawkice »

masterphilo wrote: post #99

Great read, and a close call! Like other people mentioned, the fact that Sale's predictions were even remotely close to what we're experiencing today should be hair-raising. What I took from Sale's argument was that "Technology" is not an absolute good, and without a framework of life on which most people on this planet can adopt to guide our use of tech, it will be the end. Hopefully, it will only be the end of this…

It wasn't close! Is there anyone who thinks we live in a society that almost had a socialist revolution? Where's the eco-collapse (not just damage, collapse, and multiple collapses as well -- this guy was basically saying there'd be no outdoors)? We can barely hit a 2% inflation target and you're saying dollars are close to worthless?

Edit: The guy was saying all of civilization would collapse and the survivors would start over from nothing. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see multiple comments saying this was a close call.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#108

Post by tjr225 »

SideQuark wrote: post #68
helios_invictus wrote: post #31

Reading the 3 categories the judge put together, I'd have to say that the win does go to Sales. Economic Collapse: Kelly, the "economy" is doing just fine if you're in an upper percentile. For most people the economy is not working for them. Global Environmental Disaster: Sales, many signs point to more chaotic and worse environmental conditions to come. The War Between Rich and Poor: Much like question one this one…

>For most people the economy is not working for them. For most people in the world, they are quite a bit richer than their ancestors, even by 50 years ago. In fact, the number pulled from poverty over the past 50 years is astounding. Even in rich places like the US, the poor today are vastly richer than 50 years ago. Median wages are at all time highs as well. So how do you conclude "for most people" (which I take to…

Wtf? Who cares what the median wage is? People can’t afford health care or housing.

Have you been outside in any major city recently? There is a homeless crisis that is truly shocking going on around all of us.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#109

Post by ineedasername »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #102
sillysaurusx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understand that this is the norm. And understand that when you present differing opinions without being asked, you’re acting selfishly — you’re not doing it because you care about them, you’re doing it for yourself. Ultimately it depends what you want out of your personal relationships. I’ve found people who are willing to talk. But I haven’t found people who genuinely change their mind about deeply held beliefs with…

That's not what I am saying at all. I mean for the sake of conversation and discussion, asking to even explain a belief, for understanding. Sometimes even the question is seemed as a threat. I didn't say I want to change anyone's mind. Wanting to have a discussion about important topics with loved ones isn't an instant trip down selfishness lane. I see what you are saying, but you jumped the gun a little bit.

It's not really anything new: Most people generally don't want to entertain ideas highly contrary to their own. Enshrined in the the old adage that you should never discuss religion or politics in some circumstances. Thanksgiving dinners have been getting ruined for decades by it. The rate of that happening has very likely increased though.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#110

Post by la6471 »

masterphilo wrote: post #99

Great read, and a close call! Like other people mentioned, the fact that Sale's predictions were even remotely close to what we're experiencing today should be hair-raising. What I took from Sale's argument was that "Technology" is not an absolute good, and without a framework of life on which most people on this planet can adopt to guide our use of tech, it will be the end. Hopefully, it will only be the end of this…

“ But Sale, who for years had been churning out books complaining about modernity and urging a return to a subsistence economy” - from the FA. While certainly modernity and technological progress has negative impact on certain parts of the human population (being in part blamed for societal isolation etc) , for the majority of human population technological advances has been a great leveler and a blessing. Over the last decade this has raised billions of people out of property line and in general increased the health and lifespan of most of the population. Even advanced societies like us have benefitted from it , though there is some negative effect. But to lobby for dialing back technological progress for the entire humanity - it is a very symptom of inequality that has been the result of industrial revolution and previous history and the privilege that certain societies enjoyed over others. We need to use technology itself to level the playing field , ensure wellness and happiness for everyone. What Sale and his fans need is not less technology but more looking inside - spiritual journey. But they have no right to demand policies to reverse technological progress for rest of the humanity.
Post reply on HN