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A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

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Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such a silly way of measuring the answer. Books existed in the Middle Ages (e.g. Dark Ages, yes people will say we don't call it that anymore but still). Tech could have regressed our society in manifold ways and destroyed and rotted away many many institutions and there would still be books. They should have a measure by which to mark this bet's conclusion. Arguments can be made for both sides.

Orthagonal and nitpick. I couldn't parse the "e.g., Dark Ages" part until I realised what you may have meant is "i.e., Dark Ages". I read "e.g.," as "for example" and "i.e.," as "that is". (English is not my first language)

As a native english speaker, "for example" and "that is" code as basically the same style of skip-over phrase: just there to lead into the important part.

I'm curious what distinction you are reading into it. I'm sure that as a native learner I was more apt to just take mental shortcuts rather than resolve these ambiguities.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#42
post #10

It's definitely impacted some more than others. There's now an entire class of men who can no longer have romantic relationships because they've been cast out of the dating market as technology altered dating dynamics not in their favor. For these men, their world, their society is destroyed.

I'm not sure exactly what you're hinting at, but I think you should take a cold, hard look at yourself and the expectations you place on your potential partners. Do you imagine them as actual human beings with their own thoughts, aspirations, preferences, goals? What does such a person have to gain (emotionally / socially) by choosing YOU in particular for a partner? In all relationships, romantic or not, personality…

This is complete BS. In our unequal society, some people have 100s of potential partners waiting in line for them while for others, they will never get a single chance in their entire lifetimes. Same with career opportunities. Either you're rich and have more opportunities every single day than you can possibly fathom or you don't have a single good opportunity in your entire lifetime.

What's more tragic about it is that it has increasingly little to do with merit or hard work and increasingly more to do with dumb luck. It's all social networking; but that's totally random. People are only selecting friends and partners based on capital these days, not based on any other meaningful characteristic. People are just appendages to the capital... Capital is the agent. People are replaceable.

You can thank the reserve banks for that.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#43
post #17
post #10

It's definitely impacted some more than others. There's now an entire class of men who can no longer have romantic relationships because they've been cast out of the dating market as technology altered dating dynamics not in their favor. For these men, their world, their society is destroyed.

Wait, what??? I have never heard about such a phenomenon.

I'm thinking the phenomenon is related to "Incel".

It's a laziness trap, but it has become a lifestyle for some. I don't agree with it, but it exists.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems of 2020 weren't rooted in tech, however.

They were severely exacerbated by tech. Let's argue about it and prove my point.

Agree. I think social technology has been an unmitigated disaster. I appreciate the engineering technology that has improved our infrastructure and environment. Air is cleaner, pollution is lower, food is plentiful. Cars and almost all other machinery are more efficient and more reliable. Medicine is better; things that used to be death sentences are either managable or more treatable. But compared to the 1980s, I'd take the social environment then vs now without blinking.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#45
post #10

It's definitely impacted some more than others. There's now an entire class of men who can no longer have romantic relationships because they've been cast out of the dating market as technology altered dating dynamics not in their favor. For these men, their world, their society is destroyed.

I'm not sure exactly what you're hinting at, but I think you should take a cold, hard look at yourself and the expectations you place on your potential partners. Do you imagine them as actual human beings with their own thoughts, aspirations, preferences, goals? What does such a person have to gain (emotionally / socially) by choosing YOU in particular for a partner? In all relationships, romantic or not, personality…

Your advice on how to find a partner is "join hobby groups, but not with the intention of finding a partner"?

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#46
It may not have destroyed society (yet), but it seems clear to me that what began as a way to make life simpler and more efficient and to solve previously unsolvable problems has morphed into a dystopia of surveillance capitalism and dark patterns.

The promise of tech was that we could bend it to our will to do what we want. Instead, over the last decade, we have aimed these tools at ourselves in order for companies to extract as much value from humans as possible. Then again, maybe that was the thing we were trying to do all along anyway.

But I find myself here in 2021, 15 years into an engineering career, looking at the amount of effort I have to spend just to get my devices to work for me and not let my life be absorbed by whatever company I decide to interact with.

I have to lock down my browsers, run pi-hole and out-bound application firewalls, use email forwarding services to mask my address, check my credit reports on a regular basis because a dozen of the services I have used have been breached. Change and manage passwords and TOTP tokens. I have to opt-out of mailing lists, set up burner accounts, answer phone calls as to why I tried to place an order online behind a VPN and how that was suspicious and my order is being cancelled. My car is on its last legs and I cringe at the prospect of even looking at a newer model-year vehicle, because it will almost certainly be connected to the internet and try and extract as much information about me, and the devices I interface with it, to be sold to who knows where.

What was wrong purchasing media and curating your own collection? How did we get from "Rip. Mix. Burn" to "Spotify wins patent to surveil users’ emotions to recommend music"? Why does my HP printer require an account to scan documents locally? Why does my f*king Philips S7000 razor need a smartphone app to change its sensitivity settings? Why does my goddamn fridge have an operating system?

Was it worth it? It seems the thing technology helps me do the most these days is avoid all the terrible things about technology.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orthagonal and nitpick. I couldn't parse the "e.g., Dark Ages" part until I realised what you may have meant is "i.e., Dark Ages". I read "e.g.," as "for example" and "i.e.," as "that is". (English is not my first language)

The "Dark Ages" usually refers to a subset of the Middle Ages, the earlier part, so "for example" worked for me and I only stopped and realized that ie was meant after reading your comment. This is one of those stupid things about English that make life for pupils harder for no reason. In most languages the abbreviation is straightforward and based on the actual language. (Also spelling bees don't exist in most other…

Ah. It makes sense now.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#48
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orthagonal and nitpick. I couldn't parse the "e.g., Dark Ages" part until I realised what you may have meant is "i.e., Dark Ages". I read "e.g.," as "for example" and "i.e.," as "that is". (English is not my first language)

As a native english speaker, "for example" and "that is" code as basically the same style of skip-over phrase: just there to lead into the important part. I'm curious what distinction you are reading into it. I'm sure that as a native learner I was more apt to just take mental shortcuts rather than resolve these ambiguities.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/ie-vs-eg-abbre...

I assumed "for example" follows a collection/set as opposed to "that is" which is a 1-1 mapping. Sibling comment clarified it for me on why "for example" makes sense in this context.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#49
The world has undoubtedly changed but mostly for the better. Digital technology, however, is still in its infancy. Many users are brand new to the internet in the last ten years. I have learned to pace my time on the internet, but this is after 25 years of practice and burning out on the novelty of it. We are all figuring out that new does not mean progress.

Case in point: I recently started back with the DVD side of Netflix. This is what I remembered being so awesome: find a good movie list, add it to your queue, pop envelopes in the mailbox when you're done.

It is 1000% better than endless scrolling on 5 different streaming services. I think about what I want to watch twice a month, and when I have time, I don't have to deal with any ads or worry about a spotty night on a cable modem.

I avoided the whole smart-home fad because there's nothing wrong with physical controls and buttons that have been developed over generations of human interaction. That's why I'm waiting for a good built-in-the-USA electric instead of buying a chassis with a touchscreen.

But someone else may hate controls and love touchscreens -- cool. The market lets us pick and choose.

If we can continue to reign in the inequality and environmental impacts produced by technology, use the incredible wealth we have as societies to finally end poverty, and continue to make progress against injustice, the future is incredibly bright.

Re: A 25-Year-Old Bet Comes Due: Has Tech Destroyed Society?

#50
post #5

He may have lost his bet, but maybe he came close. 2020 was the closest I’ve come to feeling that society was collapsing.

The problems of 2020 weren't rooted in tech, however.

Say theoretically everything was the same in this timeline EXCEPT there is no reddit, facebook, twitter, or 4chan.

QAnon has no platform available. Hell, maybe we still have blogs but you aren't plastered echo-chamber friendly messages you have to actually search for stuff to read or maybe go to a phpbb forum.

Trump without Twitter, QAnon, 4Chan would've probably played out differently. Without a way for society to constantly feed his narcissism would he have been so anti-mask - would anti-science even be so big if there weren't echo-chambers re-inforcing this?

That's just social media itself. It's literally poisoned our society as much as a social credit score in China probably has there among relationships. Piss someone off and now you're an enemy combatant and can't travel.

I think tech can also fix a lot, but it depends how we use it and what we do with it. I hope we can science our way out of Global Warming but I'm not very optimistic about us surviving into 2100s.

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