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Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

drugpolicy.org

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Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#21

Post by deeeeplearning »

anewaccount2021 wrote: post #17
rjbwork wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let these lobbies profit off the back of addicts and their families and their ruined lives. Nah, the next obvious step is to legalize them and have pure supplies of known purity and dosage distributed by the government at near-cost + tax to exclusively fund social programs and rehab. There's no need to bring profit into it. Prohibition doesn't work. We've seen it t…

Why would anyone enter rehab if the government is providing free, high-quality drugs?

You think people enter rehab because they can't get drugs? What?

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#22

Post by ogre_codes »

imperio59 wrote: post #6
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

> Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs".

Not at all. Oregon is saying they are going to stop using police resources to punish people for self-destructive behavior. Most drug users are struggling to begin with. Adding prison time for something which is not hurting others is cruel.

> The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let these lobbies profit off the back of addicts and their families and their ruined lives.

As opposed to ruining people's lives for a behavior which isn't inherently harmful to others.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#23

Post by ogre_codes »

blhack wrote: post #4
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

I'm curious what metrics we should track to determine if this is good or not.

Does drug use increase?

Does crime increase?

What impact does it have on the prison population and public health?

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#24

Post by lanevorockz »

random_savv wrote: post #18

Good. This has worked well in other countries, particularly Portugal: https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portuga...

Slightly hard to believe in data these days ... I went to uni in portugal and it was rare to find a student that didn't use weed. I guess this is why it was so easy to legalise it.

Then the data says 10% ... it's laughable.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#25

Post by DubiousPusher »

imperio59 wrote: post #6
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

Yes, this is much worse than a criminal justice system that chews up and spits out these same people.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#26

Post by daenz »

As a libertarian leaning person, I agree with this. However, I still think it will have a lot of negative consequences that people will be eager to sweep under the rug. Even if the net effect is positive, we still need to be honest about any negative results that we may see from this.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#27

Post by yboris »

imperio59 wrote: post #6
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

The best book I've read on this topic is Legalize This by Douglas Husak

https://www.amazon.com/Legalize-This-Decriminalizing-Practic...

He argues (convincingly) that all drugs should be decriminalized. Putting someone in jail is the most extreme thing that our society does, and needs a serious justification. Every individual being put in jail deserves an answer, and no satisfactory answer can be given for putting someone in jail for a nonviolent drug use (or possession).

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#28

Post by betenoire »

blhack wrote: post #4
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

I'm curious what metrics we should track to determine if this is good or not.

The experiment doesn't have to be on people, it can be on budgets and resources. Tracking whether or not or how many people get help vs punished might be a place to start

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#29

Post by mr-wendel »

rjbwork wrote: post #10
imperio59 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

>The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let these lobbies profit off the back of addicts and their families and their ruined lives. Nah, the next obvious step is to legalize them and have pure supplies of known purity and dosage distributed by the government at near-cost + tax to exclusively fund social programs and rehab. There's no need to bring profit into it. Prohibition doesn't work. We've seen it t…

I'd love to no end if there is a major emphasis on the "rehab" part so the incentives AND disincentives are aligned. Less money flowing? Less need for remediation. More money flowing? More need for remediation. More money than we know how to spend efficiently? Spend it on neglected public infrastructure fixes.

Personally, I worry when "sin tax" money is used to fuel unrelated social programs. The incentives are now inverted. If drug usage goes down and the money flow decreases we're jeopardizing the foundation of other important things. Maybe its better to take the money when/where you can get it and deal with the problem down the road? I dunno.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#30

Post by m463 »

kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

> one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough

I kind of agree, but we do have 50 states, each running their own experiments. Massachusetts has right to repair. Nevada has legalized gambling. Some states have stronger employee freedom, some stronger employer freedom. Lots of different educational experiments. Helmet laws, concealed carry, state income tax, no state income tax. Can you pump your own gas?

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