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Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

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Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#111
post #12

Yet another news article that doesn't link the damn paper. "The hygiene hypothesis, the COVID pandemic, and consequences for the human microbiome" > This pandemic intersects with a decades-long decline in microbial diversity and ancestral microbes due to hygiene, antibiotics, and urban living (the hygiene hypothesis). High-risk groups succumbing to COVID-19 include those with preexisting conditions, such as diabetes…

Doesn't help. Unless you have an account it costs 10 USD to read it.

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally doubt we need zoonotic diseases to calibrate a healthy immune response. I also believe the close association of people and animals was more salient to European populations than elsewhere, and furthermore we didn’t evolve in an environment where you could expose or be exposed to thousands of people on a regular basis. So I’m not sure I’m convinced by an anthropological argument here. And IIRC, the hygiene…

The word vaccine literally means “of the cow”

That’s because the first vaccine was developed from cow ulcers, not because we need to be near cows.

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#113
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hygiene hypothesis still seems dubious to me. The notion that hygienic lifestyles can lead to a weaker immune system or microbiome is plausible, but I'd actually be pretty surprised if it translated into worse long-term outcomes like life expectancy. Being exposed to lots of pathogens can have some pretty big downsides. We're only just beginning to understand long-term COVID symptoms and it's possible we've missed lo…

Think of it this way: your body has machinery built to combat pathogens. If there are no pathogens to fight, the bar for what is considered a pathogen lowers until eventually those machines are attacking healthy tissue and can cause many issues. Allergies, Lupus, and many others are already caused by similar mechanisms, and pushing society into ever more clean states will likely lead to more issues. The only real cur…

That's my hypothesis for how homo sapiens goes extinct -- becoming ever more dependent on nature-shaping or external machinery to augment weakened selection pressure, but very fragile to sudden changes and always fighting fires.

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Contracting COVID-19 may lead to long term health issues. Uh-huh. And what percentage of people who contract have "long term health issues"? This is just more scaremongering based on self-reporting and anecdotes.

“Three-quarters of Wuhan patients hospitalized for Covid-19 still had symptoms 6 months later, Chinese study finds” https://abc17news.com/news/national-world/2021/01/12/three-q... N = 1,700+

On the other hand, the "three quarters" is probably not the number that matters, since the vast majority of Covid-19 cases are not hospitalized. Looking at CDC data (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...) it seems that roughly 6% of Covid-infected people with symptomatic illness get hospitalized; so if three quarters of those will have long-lasting symptoms then it means that if you get Covid, then your likelihood of having long-lasting symptoms is something like 4.5%.

On the other hand, while that risk is not that widespread, that still will mean millions of affected people.

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#115
post #12

Yet another news article that doesn't link the damn paper. "The hygiene hypothesis, the COVID pandemic, and consequences for the human microbiome" > This pandemic intersects with a decades-long decline in microbial diversity and ancestral microbes due to hygiene, antibiotics, and urban living (the hygiene hypothesis). High-risk groups succumbing to COVID-19 include those with preexisting conditions, such as diabetes…

Doesn't help. Unless you have an account it costs 10 USD to read it.

If it’s ok with you, you can get the DOI link listed there, paste it in SciHub and see if it’s available there.

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#116
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Contracting COVID-19 may lead to long term health issues. Uh-huh. And what percentage of people who contract have "long term health issues"? This is just more scaremongering based on self-reporting and anecdotes.

/sigh 30 seconds of Googling and you can find this from the BMJ “Around 10% of patients who have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 virus remain unwell beyond three weeks, and a smaller proportion for months (see box [1]).[7] This is based on the UK COVID Symptom Study, in which people enter their ongoing symptoms on a smartphone app. This percentage is lower than that cited in many published observational studies,[8][9]…

a few extra weeks isn't "long term". Long term is years. How many people that got covid last march are still dealing with issues related to the illness today? My guess: an extremely tiny percentage.

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#117
post #12

Yet another news article that doesn't link the damn paper. "The hygiene hypothesis, the COVID pandemic, and consequences for the human microbiome" > This pandemic intersects with a decades-long decline in microbial diversity and ancestral microbes due to hygiene, antibiotics, and urban living (the hygiene hypothesis). High-risk groups succumbing to COVID-19 include those with preexisting conditions, such as diabetes…

Doesn't help. Unless you have an account it costs 10 USD to read it.

try this:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27471720/

or full text here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4918254/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4918254/pdf/itt... [PDF]

i turned my browser setting to no style for page rendering and i got breadcrumbs

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As occurred in the spring, COVID-19 has become the leading cause of death in the United States (daily mortality rates for heart disease and cancer, which for decades have been the 2 leading causes of death, are approximately 1700 and 1600 deaths per day, respectively4).Dec 17, 2020 [0] How do you argue with statistics? Its leading cause of death. [0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2774465

"How do you argue with statistics?" Depends on the methodologies used and the conclusions drawn from the numbers. For example, the parent comment was claiming that the average 35 year old overestimates their chances of dying from covid. Your comment states that covid is the leading cause of death. I believe both statements are true. You can see some of this in a quote from the article you posted. "In contrast, for in…

But that's with the measures taken.

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#119
The pandemic has also had a severe impact on the mental health of many people.

Lockdowns and their consequences have been well-covered, but there also seems to be some effect on people (kids especially) that could be pre-disposed to obsessive-compulsive behaviors, with the constant stress of this looming threat causing children to start obsessively washing their hands and becoming extremely cautious not to get infected.

We will be dealing with the fallback long after life returns to "normal".

Re: Scientists fear pandemic's 'hyper hygiene' could have long-term health impacts

#120
non paywall versions here :

abstract: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27471720/

or full text here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4918254/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4918254/pdf/itt... [PDF]

i turned my browser setting to no style for page rendering and i got breadcrumbs

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