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Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

counterfeitingstock.com

351–360 of 403 posts

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to buy my synthetic dollars with the price pegged to a dollar? edit: I just realized this is exactly what USDT is, but I still feel like it will all come burning down at some point. Maybe it will take 30 years though.

> Do you want to buy my synthetic dollars with the price pegged to a dollar? This describes like half of finance. Treasuries, bank deposits and credit cards all represent to varying degrees “synthetic dollars.”

Yep, and it's not some new-fangled form of finance, it is the entire history of finance. There is a hierarchy of money, and it has always been so.

I highly recommend this Coursera course to shed light on this: https://www.coursera.org/learn/money-banking

https://www.coursera.org/learn/money-banking

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#352
post #73

The author seems to be really upset about this, but I don't understand why. Nothing they are describing, if you ignore histrionic language like "counterfeiting", seems especially nefarious. Maybe I am misunderstanding. Basically, a short is when A borrows from B a share of corporation C with the promise to return a share of corporation C at a later time, plus some cash interest. A naked short is where instead B gives…

When I purchase a stock, I do it in the express belief that I will get a physical (though digitally stored) share of that company, and possibly one that gives me a voting right if the stock is marked as such. When a stock “fails to clear” this gives me a ton of problems such as slippage and volatility, and possibly a quite substantial loss. Same if you buy an apple, I'm sure you'd only do it in the belief that you wi…

> When I purchase a stock, I do it in the express belief that I will get a physical share of that company

When you put money in a bank, acquiring interest, you no longer control that money, the bank is free to invest it, though obligated to return it. This is part of your agreement with the bank.

When a broker buys stock on you behalf, there are often similar arrangements in the T&Cs. Your stocks therefor, cannot be borrowed, or sold, without your consent; but you need to read the terms to see what you are consenting to.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> naked short selling at volume will create a self-fulfilling prophecy To be super clear, naked short selling is banned for everyone but market makers [1]. A market maker goes naked short when there is a buying frenzy. Their economic incentive is to then cover the short given they are in a buying frenzy . The NYSE explicitly markets its specialist system to issuers as a stabiliser mechanism. It’s a selling point to l…

Is "market maker" an officially/legally designated status?

Yes for NASDAQ.

https://www.nasdaqtrader.com/Trader.aspx?id=MarketMakerProce...

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> naked short selling at volume will create a self-fulfilling prophecy To be super clear, naked short selling is banned for everyone but market makers [1]. A market maker goes naked short when there is a buying frenzy. Their economic incentive is to then cover the short given they are in a buying frenzy . The NYSE explicitly markets its specialist system to issuers as a stabiliser mechanism. It’s a selling point to l…

Is "market maker" an officially/legally designated status?

Yes, it's an official designation by the SEC with accompanying regulations. To become a market maker you have to specifically register as such with the exchanges you'd like to service.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#355
post #139

This is mostly nonsense. There is nothing wrong with there being more shares short than shares outstanding. It just seems problematic, until you think it through. Person A has 1 share of company Y. Person B borrows 1 share of company Y from person A, and then sells it into the market. This is called a short sale. But person B just sold their borrowed share. Now that share is owned by person C. Person C can now lend i…

You think selling a stock without first owning or borrowing it makes sense?

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#356
post #139

This is mostly nonsense. There is nothing wrong with there being more shares short than shares outstanding. It just seems problematic, until you think it through. Person A has 1 share of company Y. Person B borrows 1 share of company Y from person A, and then sells it into the market. This is called a short sale. But person B just sold their borrowed share. Now that share is owned by person C. Person C can now lend i…

> This is mostly nonsense. Agreed. People should be able to take the pessimistic side of a trade. The one problem I could see with short selling is not the technical act of selling short, but the (dis)information campaign around a company that appears to follow. But, this happens both ways good and bad so it's probably a wash. > Most of Wall Street hates short sellers, because they drive down the prices of companies…

Did you read it? The website isn't criticizing shorting, it's criticizing naked short selling: selling a stock without first owning or borrowing it.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#357
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With normal shorting the number of shares being traded is no greater than the float. Only with naked shorting can there be more shares traded than float, as in the parent's example. Interestingly, in both cases the short interest can be greater than 100%. My understanding is that naked shorting can be used to artificially lower the stock price by increasing the supply with the ultimate goal of driving the company int…

> With normal shorting the number of shares being traded is no greater than the float. Only with naked shorting can there be more shares traded than float, as in the parent's example. Interestingly, in both cases the short interest can be greater than 100%. Why? A owns a share, loans it to short seller B. B sells the loaned share back to A. Then A loans the share again to B, B sells it back to A. Now repeat the proce…

> You can get arbitrarily high amounts of shorting without any naked shorts.

That's why I said "Interestingly, in both cases the short interest can be greater than 100%"

But in the situation you're describing the total number of shares on the market is still equal to float.

If we altered your example to have naked shorting it would be: B sells a share it hasn't borrowed to C, A sells a share it hasn't borrowed to D. The total number of shares that can now be traded is equal to the float + 2. Hence the claims of 'counterfeit shares' which is not a great description.

Naked shorting can only be done by market makers. The argument is that it helps to create liquidity and that these actors will have the ability to later borrow the shares without issue. The problem is that, as I understand it, there are not strict rules dictating when they must actually borrow the shares to back the shares that they sold short.

There are some indications that this has happened with GME. For example Michael Burry said in a now deleted tweet[0]:

"May 2020, relatively sane times for $GME, I called in my lent-out GME shares. It took my brokers WEEKS to find my shares. I cannot even imagine the sh*tstorm in settlement now. They may have to extend delivery timelines. #pigsgetslaughtered #nakedshorts"

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210130030954/https://twitter.c...

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What your describing still sounds incredibly dodgy. The price of anything is a result of its some intrinsic value and the volume of supply. So a precious stone is valuable because of its beauty, but also because it's rare. If someone mines a billion such stones, it won't affect their individual beauty, but it will certainly reduce the price someone is willing to pay for one. Now, you seem to be saying that short sell…

> You can drive the price down simply by inflating the supply short selling does not increase the number of shares. if i borrow a share from you and sell it, you cannot also sell that share . the number of shares is constant regardless of how many shares are sold short (except for naked short selling). short selling increases the number of people that can sell, but that only increases symmetry in an otherwise asymmet…

> what is "manipulative" about selling a stock?

The case outlined in the whitepaper is not just regular short-selling (e.g. you borrow a share and sell it, with a promise to buy it back). Short selling has actual uses in a market and they are not claiming that shorting in itself is "manipulative" or "fraud".

Their claims of counterfeiting stock involve the use of naked shorts(a.k.a where a share is sold, but never borrowed) Naked shorts must be attached to a real share within 3 - 21 days, not doing so is illegal. They outline a series of loopholes which are used to sell shorts w/o ever borrowing a real share, effectively diluting the actual stock issued by the company with extra counterfeits to drive the price down. The goal is to drive the price to 0 and bankrupt the company, so that the shorts don't have to be covered anymore, netting a large (tax-free) profit.

> if i buy a bunch of stock (to make the price go up), is that also "manipulation"?

No, lets talk about the details of how actual manipulation works. Below is not an exhaustive list of manipulation tactics, just a selection of examples:

1. SEC rules left a loophole allowing naked shorts to be covered with naked calls. No actual instance of stock has to actually be borrowed in this case, but it's not marked as a fail-to-deliver in SEC reporting. The naked call option is not tied to any stock issued by the company, it's just an option to buy at a future date, but it can now be repeatedly borrowed out for shorts as if it were a stock.

2. The SEC keeps track of fail-to-deliver in the SHO list and has requirements of 3 days for brokers and 21 days for market makers to borrow an actual stock. Another fraud claim is that brokers/hedge funds collude to pass around naked shorts between offshore shell companies in order to indefinitely reset the 3 day SEC requirement to keep naked shorts indefinitely and keep it off of the SECs fail-to-deliver list. They also use a similar technique to allow 8 - 10 shorts to borrow the same shares and then just move them around in time to meet SEC reporting deadlines. During any audit by the SEC, the SEC calls ahead and they move all naked shorts to offshore accounts where they can't be seen and then move them back once the investigation is over.

This means for every fail-to-deliver marked on the SECs books, there will be several times (10 - 20 according to the whitepaper) more counterfeit shares being sold by shorts that are not tied to any real shares.

3. The third fraud claim involves the clearing house (a.k.a a broker for brokers) the DTCC (we care about two of its subsidiaries DTC and NSCC). When a broker sells a short and fails to deliver an actual share in 3 days, before 1981 they would be forced to buy it back. After 1981, they can borrow one from the NSCC Stock borrow program. The NSCC will then go to the DTC which holds all the stock certificates and find a broker with a surplus of shares and borrow the necessary amount of shares.

Now here's the fraudulent part. When the shares are borrowed only the net amount is deducted from the surplus, but no actual shares are actually removed from the individual accounts of the broker. Now both the lending broker and the borrowing broker have real shares in their account, but they're the same real shares. Since the borrowing broker has real shares now, these same shares can again be lent out by NSCC to another borrowing broker and again no shares are removed. Now 3 investors have the same shares in their account. Since transactions are done as net transactions (instead of individual stocks) between brokers, the fact that 3 investors have the same share never has to be reconciled and two counterfeit shares have been created.

In regards to the GME short, even though only 71 million shares were issued by the company, currently institutions have reported to the SEC (13F filings https://fintel.io/so/us/gme) that they own more than 113 million shares (including 13% owned by gamestop ceo).

Additionally according to the SEC's fails-to-deliver list for December, Gamestop has nearly 1.8 million shares failed-to-deliver. Most companies have anywhere from 0 to a few thousand. Going by the whitepapers estimates the number of counterfeit shares would be 10-20 times that amount, indicating that ~ 40 million shares of Gamestop would be counterfeit.

In order to verify these accusations with concrete data, we would need access to the books/transactions of the DTCC. They are a private organization that is collectively owned by brokers and they are very secretive and have few disclosure requirements due to regulatory capture at the SEC.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't selling something you don't own a fraud or the stock market has an exemption? The instance when A essentially sells the share to B accepting the right to receive the share back as a payment also wouldn't fly in any other environment, as this could just open the door to money laundering. So why is this accepted in the stock market? Or simply the law enforcement doesn't know how to tackle it?

> Isn't selling something you don't own a fraud or the stock market has an exemption? I call up Dominos and order a pepperoni pizza. They take my order and process my credit card. They’ve just sold me a pizza that doesn’t exist. Is this fraud?

> Is this fraud?

No because they have the raw materials and labour to make a new pizza and have entered into a contract to do so.

Short sellers don't have raw materials to make new shares.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#360
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options are bets in a way that actual sales aren't. Notably, a put explicitly a contract to sell something at a given price in the future. Nobody buying or selling a put has any intention of stock trading hands -- and the option can even be written as cash-only, where stock never actually does. So while selling a put is the same fundamental idea as a short ("I think the price will go down"), it's mechanically very di…

You know that a put and a call combine to make a synthetic stock? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Put%E2%80%93call_parity (If you write a put and a call for the same strike, you are basically in the same position as a short seller. If you buy a put and a call for the same strike, you are economically in the same position as an owner of the stock.) Hence, you can't separate options from stocks.

Economically, sure, but not literally. If you hold both a put and a call, for instance, you can't vote with them, or earn dividends. You would not say you're the actual owner -- whereas a short sale creates a negative actual stock.
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