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Split keyboards and how to build them

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Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#251

Post by willtim »

Syzygies wrote: post #231
ashkankiani wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them.…

I gave up on three Kinesis Advantage keyboards in 2006, after they all started dropping key-up events on modifier keys. I then took one apart. Primitive, dated USB hardware, and nothing about the company read that they were eager to modernize. (The ergo keyboard market abounds with never-updated designs.) Has there been a generational improvement in their circuit quality?

The original ones had some problems that were never fixed (IIRC, the original firmware was outsourced to a company that went under), but the Advantage 2 was a redesign and works great (at least for me).

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#252

Post by wanttocommentt »

Symbiote wrote: post #179
wanttocommentt wrote: post #113

A lot of the shortcuts I'm using in my IDE(intellij) are including one of the F-keys. I see that most of those keyboards are not having the top row with the F-keys, so I'm wondering how others deal with this? This was also the reason I bought the Logitech Ergo K860, which is so far pretty ok.

I have an ErgoDash with no F-keys, and I miss them. I have two ways to press F5: I can press Fn+5, or I can press 5 and the key below (Y on Dvorak) together. I usually use the latter, since it can be done one-handed, but I would still prefer a real key. My next keyboard is likely to be something like a Dactyl Manuform, and I don't see the point of _not_ including the F-keys when I'm printing the case myself. I don't…

I think with Dactyl Manuform it's also easier to reach the F-keys. After I paid attention I noticed it's very hard to travel to the F-keys without leaving the default position with my other fingers.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#253

Post by ashkankiani »

Syzygies wrote: post #231
ashkankiani wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them.…

I gave up on three Kinesis Advantage keyboards in 2006, after they all started dropping key-up events on modifier keys. I then took one apart. Primitive, dated USB hardware, and nothing about the company read that they were eager to modernize. (The ergo keyboard market abounds with never-updated designs.) Has there been a generational improvement in their circuit quality?

I had the same bug and it irritated me to no end too. I was about to make my own custom controller when I found out that they made a version 2 which fixed the issues. I have 2 of the version 2 and have been using it for a few years now with no problems. I'd say it was improved.

If you email them, they might give you a discount or some kind of trade-in if you tell them about your previous problems. I've found their customer service to generally be pretty chill.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#254

Post by beyon »

snapplefish wrote: post #160
__mharrison__ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add a long time thinkpad user and someone who has a mech keyboard (unicomp) with a trackpoint, I thought these would be common place... Still waiting for a trackpoint but I have a nice big CST trackball between my split keyboard until then...

Trackpoint modules are harvestable from Thinkpad keyboards, and are well-supported in QMK (the most prolific keyboard firmware). I've used them a lot on custom splits, and they work quite well.

Are they well supported in both AVR and ARM/chibios versions of QMK? Are there any differences in how they work on a thinkpad and with QMK?

On my old thinkpad the cursor would sometimes start drifting and you have to release the trackpoint for it to settle - is that something that is handled by the firmware or inside the trackpoint module?

Asking as someone who plans to build a custom keyboard (preferably with arm mcu) and have a trackpoint module waiting with the pinout figured out.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#255

Post by flurdy »

soenkeliebau wrote: post #247
flurdy wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can have a normal ⊥ arrows layout on the right half [1]. I do as I use those keys a lot. Or I can use a navigation layer as others have mentioned. The magic is the double use of modifiers if tapped or held. Whilst I personally could see a need for another column if you have a Nordic layout like mine, but that would make it not symmetrical and unnecessary for English layouts. [1] https://configure.ergodox-ez.c…

For a querty or qwerz layout that would indeed work, if you moved one symbol key (- for german layout, ? for american). However in my keyboard loayout there actually is a letter in that place (j) [1]. And while I'm willing to compromise on modifiers, page up/down and the like, I draw a line at the stuff that I spent a lot of effort on learning to touch-type :) As for using a navigation layer - perfectly happy with th…

Ah yes, for that layout with 4 extra keys you would have to compromise. E.g. move the ',' or '.'to be shared with the right shift key so that you can have the arrows keys in normal layout. Or just have the left and right on the base layer and all 4 in another layer.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#256

Post by anotheryou »

ruiseal wrote: post #138
anotheryou wrote: post #128

I love split, ortho, QMK, but I just prefer the feel of rubberdome...

Heresy. Is there any particular reason? Even the people who I've talked to that like rubber dome say linear is better.

I like them laptop style: low-profile, silent, light, slightly tactile.

Haven't tried low profile linear mech ones yet.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#257

Post by anotheryou »

Sholmesy wrote: post #137
anotheryou wrote: post #128

I love split, ortho, QMK, but I just prefer the feel of rubberdome...

There are certain switches that would likely accommodate your preference. Maybe a lightweight linear. NK Silk Reds maybe. Worst part of the keyboard community is discovery imo.

I forgot to add low-profile to the requirement :)

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#258

Post by fomine3 »

Syzygies wrote: post #231
ashkankiani wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them.…

I gave up on three Kinesis Advantage keyboards in 2006, after they all started dropping key-up events on modifier keys. I then took one apart. Primitive, dated USB hardware, and nothing about the company read that they were eager to modernize. (The ergo keyboard market abounds with never-updated designs.) Has there been a generational improvement in their circuit quality?

Not Advantage, but my Kinesys Freestyle Edge has great firmware and customize app (Swing) that works flawlessly. The firmware is better in some features than QMK, but worse in some features. (I want LT key on QMK for Kinesis)

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#259

Post by rendaw »

xudongz wrote: post #226
randmeerkat wrote: post #38

All I want is a low profile, wireless ergodox, with an aluminum chassis. I would willingly pay $500+ for such a keyboard, but it just doesn’t exist.

I've been working on a aluminum and wireless version of the ErgoDox and the group buy will start this weekend. It will be around $350 excluding switches and keycaps. With DSA keycaps (the shortest possible one) the total height is 29mm (including rubber feet). You can see the details of the earlier laser cut prototype here (and subscribe to the mailing list for updates): https://www.xudongz.com/blog/2020/ergoblue/ .…

I'm glad I came back here. I'm interested, but had some questions.

What's a controller? It sounds like some sort of combined battery pack/bluetooth adapter... How much extra desk space does it take? Do you have photos of that?

Also re: battery life, I assume the reason why having a "central" half reduces battery life is the same as the first version. Why can't the computer keep track of modifiers/layers? If you have two keyboards plugged in, you can press shift on one and type on the other and you'll get capital letters.

Is the group buy just for parts or is it for (partially) assembled keyboards? I'm not a DIY eletronics sort, both from an equipment and know-how perspective.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#260

Post by xudongz »

rendaw wrote: post #259
xudongz wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working on a aluminum and wireless version of the ErgoDox and the group buy will start this weekend. It will be around $350 excluding switches and keycaps. With DSA keycaps (the shortest possible one) the total height is 29mm (including rubber feet). You can see the details of the earlier laser cut prototype here (and subscribe to the mailing list for updates): https://www.xudongz.com/blog/2020/ergoblue/ .…

I'm glad I came back here. I'm interested, but had some questions. What's a controller? It sounds like some sort of combined battery pack/bluetooth adapter... How much extra desk space does it take? Do you have photos of that? Also re: battery life, I assume the reason why having a "central" half reduces battery life is the same as the first version. Why can't the computer keep track of modifiers/layers? If you have…

https://www.xudongz.com/blog/2020/ergoblue/firmware/ has a lot more information about the controller (with photos). In summary:

- The dongle is reasonably small. If you're traveling with it, you can toss it in your bag with a battery pack and it acts as a Bluetooth keyboard (for your phone/tablet/laptop/etc). You can plug it into your desktop, in which case it acts as a USB keyboard in addition to Bluetooth for other devices (phone/etc)

- Modifiers work fine but layers don't because some software still needs to maintain state. For example you might have the layer switch key on the left but want the next key to be on the new layer on the right. Theoretically one can do this with custom software on the computer though an external controller/dongle is straightforward and doesn't need to account for OS/platform differences. It also lets you connect to multiple devices simultaneous via Bluetooth.

- There's an option for hot swap switch sockets, in which assembly is putting the case together, soldering some header pins, and popping in the switches. There will be an assembly service for people who just don't want to do it but the process itself has been thoroughly optimized that it shouldn't be difficult.

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