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Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

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Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#51

Post by oefrha »

mofosyne wrote: post #48
oefrha wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question I always ask when people suggest warfare, especially an invasion: will you personally fight in it?

Maybe a better question would be are you willing to allow crimes against humanity to occur if you can avoid personally fighting against it? Plus there is a whole spectrum of physical intervention if we choose to. E.g. drones, supporting insurgencies, etc... that doesn't even require boots on ground. This principle would be under R2P responsibility to protect.

We must have pretty different views of history if you think the actual goals of this kind of "intervention" ever included fighting "crimes against humanity", and they were not or did not lead to crimes against humanity themselves.

Also, killing human beings enemy combatants dispassionately with drones... Not something I'm energetic enough to debate today.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#52

Post by jacquesm »

baybal2 wrote: post #31
myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

Ah, but the Panama intervention was all about American economic interests, and the Grenada one was about saving American lives. What economic or other interests does the USA currently have in Myanmar?

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#53

Post by baybal2 »

oefrha wrote: post #34
baybal2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

The question I always ask when people suggest warfare, especially an invasion: will you personally fight in it?

The predominant part of HN demographic are young military age men.

In case of any real conflict US will get dragged in, you will all be drafted, want you or not.

Becoming a soldier after being a freewheeling young man with 6 digit income, and effectively loosing everything you put into your career, business, education, relationship with your woman is not a pleasant thing.

But think, sooner or later US will be dragged into a real conflict. Everything is going towards that, and 2020, and multiple weak presidencies have only accelerated the timeline for Beijing, and Moscow.

China's strategy is to keep US in Iraq, and Afghanistan indefinitely, and have US dragged into fighting equally pointless, exhausting conflicts, whether they will be military, trade, or diplomatic.

They want to move that big direct conflict as much into future as possible, but that day will eventually, and inevitably come.

The question will be on whose terms will it happen.

What do you want? Loose everything and win, or loose everything and loose?

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#54

Post by bosswipe »

myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

> Myanmar is perhaps the first country the modern-West has totally lost from the grasp of its sphere of influence.

This makes no sense except maybe as Chinese propaganda. Burma hasn't been under any western influence since the military took over in 1962.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#56

Post by VLM »

echelon wrote: post #16
myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

So now China's game plan is to topple democracies? What's next, and how far will this go?

Functioning democracies don't mysteriously have one party obtain 95%+ of the votes in every election.

Single party rule is naturally ineffective.

So when Americans try it in Flint MI and as a result of stellar leadership the water is undrinkable, send in the National Guard to fix things and its rah rah america F yeah stars and stripes forever.

But when foreigner militaries have to "reset" things after a decade of single party rule, suddenly its all "toppling democracy".

I find it fascinating that when Stalin and Hitler and Saddam Hussein got 95%+ of the vote, that's marketed as evil dictatorship, but when Myanmar gets similar suspicious numbers, "well that's just the beauty of democracy in action". It seems in practice the sole determining point for if you get marketed as a dictatorship or a shining beacon of democracy is how much the US State Dept likes you.

Another novelty of propaganda is we've been heavily indoctrinated for decades that dictatorships are inherently evil, yet ironically the one in Myanmar seems like pretty nice leaders. Of all the dictatorships to topple in a military coup, it seems a shame to topple one that's actually pretty nice folks.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#57

Post by einszwei »

myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

I found this article very enlightening about Sino-Myanmar relations https://cm.scholasticahq.com/article/5874-sino-myanmar-relat...

I don't think we have any credible source for if china is in any way involved in current military coup. (Would be great if someone can correct me here)

But what we do know from past is

* China has previously financially supported military regime in Myanmar.

* China has vested interests in many infrastructure projects like dams, ports, oil and mining. There have been many human rights violations in these copper mines which are operated by chinese state owned companies [1].

[1]: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/02/myanmar-suspe...

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#58

Post by djohnston »

baybal2 wrote: post #31
myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

Myanmar's mess isn't worth a single missile off a Predator drone. No more military interventions from the West please.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#59

Post by baybal2 »

VLM wrote: post #44
baybal2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

The problems is revolutions are people-based. No matter how many decades you keep American tanks in various middle eastern countries, if the people don't want to change, they won't. Consider if China makes a better offer for the country than the US State Dept, which seems likely based on historical performance of the US State Dept. After the USA blows up all their old tanks, cementing anti-US hatred for generations,…

This is very much a description of the fiasco US encountered in Iraq.

The battle was a total triumph, but aftermath a tragedy, and mainly so for mind boggling incompetence of post-war Washington policy effectively instigating a civil war, then backing one side in it, then another, and then showing a middle finger to both, and walking away.

All of this could've been avoided under different leadership.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#60

Post by Mauricebranagh »

VLM wrote: post #44
baybal2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

The problems is revolutions are people-based. No matter how many decades you keep American tanks in various middle eastern countries, if the people don't want to change, they won't. Consider if China makes a better offer for the country than the US State Dept, which seems likely based on historical performance of the US State Dept. After the USA blows up all their old tanks, cementing anti-US hatred for generations,…

Ah customer versions of knockoffs of soviet tanks then :-)
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