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Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

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Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#41

Post by enriquto »

rgbrenner wrote: post #38
pessimizer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sides aren't the US vs China... the sides are those on the side of human rights and liberty and those that seek to deprive others of their rights.

What's the difficulty in separating those two things? I'm not talking about entities or countries... I'm talking about human beings with names. On one side there are people that deprive others of their rights. For example: That includes Xi Jinping. It also includes every person that helped overthrow Iran's democracy. It includes US citizens that attempt to deprive others of their voting rights. On the other side you…

I agree 100% with everything that you say, but the list of examples that you give seems a bit biased...

Would you add Bush and Obama to the first list? Would you add Snowden and Manning to the second?

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#42

Post by esperent »

enriquto wrote: post #35
rgbrenner wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "moral ground" mean? You mean, if I (a person that lives in the US) sees someone lose a human right, I should shut up, because some other guy who also lives in the US, who I've never met did something that I never approved of or endorsed? Like we should all be ok with an individual being victimized because anyone who wants to say something is guilty of something else by association... I guess the victims sh…

> You mean, if I (a person that lives in the US) sees someone lose a human right, I should shut up, because some other guy who also lives in the US, who I've never met did something that I never approved of or endorsed? No, of course! I agree with you: individual citizens should have the right to talk about anything, there's free speech after all. What I mean is that if you are too focused on the (truly horrible) inj…

Can you please for just a minute stop trying to make everything about the US? It's exhausting. Every single discussion on the internet, no matter what country we're talking about, there's always some American guy (usually several) that comes in and tries to change the topic to focus on the US. Other countries exist, and deserve to be discussed and criticised on their own merits. It's not always about you Americans.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#43

Post by baybal2 »

onethought wrote: post #27
myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

Isn’t this related to the head general not being able to extend his term... how is china involved?

It's the biggest sugar daddy of Myanmar's military, after US wasn't able to cope with rising appetites of Burmese generals.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#44

Post by VLM »

baybal2 wrote: post #31
myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

The problems is revolutions are people-based. No matter how many decades you keep American tanks in various middle eastern countries, if the people don't want to change, they won't.

Consider if China makes a better offer for the country than the US State Dept, which seems likely based on historical performance of the US State Dept. After the USA blows up all their old tanks, cementing anti-US hatred for generations, they can buy nice new Chinese ones after the treaty with China is signed.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#45

Post by refurb »

enriquto wrote: post #12
myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

> Myanmar is perhaps the first country the modern-West has totally lost from the grasp of its sphere of influence. Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. It can be factual, at least. But in case China is supporting the military overthrow of foreign governments over the world, then "the West" has zero moral ground to criticize, as we've been doing exactly that since, well, forever.

So you'd argue "the West" had no moral authority to fight against Nazi Germany? The USSR and the Iron Curtain? Defend South Korea? Because "it has zero moral ground to criticize, as we've been doing exactly that since, well, forever."?

Your statement is just illogical.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#46

Post by meiraleal »

cheph wrote: post #40
gtufano wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is currently probably way better (USA vs. China). Especially when seen from Europe (or USA)... looking at it from the point of view of a South-American citizen probably don't give the same result... and it's not self-hate, just history

If China was so much better why do people from South America risk life and limb to get to the fascist, racist white supremacist hellhole that is USA (where cops hunt people of color like dogs on the street and throw the ones they don't murder in cold blood in jail to use as slave labour) instead of just going to China?

Maybe because China is ~15,000km away while the US is ~5,000

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#47

Post by enriquto »

refurb wrote: post #45
enriquto wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Myanmar is perhaps the first country the modern-West has totally lost from the grasp of its sphere of influence. Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. It can be factual, at least. But in case China is supporting the military overthrow of foreign governments over the world, then "the West" has zero moral ground to criticize, as we've been doing exactly that since, well, forever.

So you'd argue "the West" had no moral authority to fight against Nazi Germany? The USSR and the Iron Curtain? Defend South Korea? Because "it has zero moral ground to criticize, as we've been doing exactly that since, well, forever."? Your statement is just illogical.

Nazi Germany was pretty much "the west", I don't know what do you mean about that. But just to be clear: yes, I think that it was wrong for Nazi Germany to invade their eastern neighbors. In more modern terms, I'd say that we shouldn't have sponsored the overthrow of Libya and given it to religious fundamentalists, for example.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#48

Post by mofosyne »

oefrha wrote: post #34
baybal2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

The question I always ask when people suggest warfare, especially an invasion: will you personally fight in it?

Maybe a better question would be are you willing to allow crimes against humanity to occur if you can avoid personally fighting against it?

Plus there is a whole spectrum of physical intervention if we choose to. E.g. drones, supporting insurgencies, etc... that doesn't even require boots on ground.

This principle would be under R2P responsibility to protect.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#49

Post by sbmthakur »

baybal2 wrote: post #31
myanmarthrow wrote: post #10

Posting this throwaway because I don’t want my residency canceled. That should give you a hint that I might know way more than the armchair experts. Any article that talks about Myanmar and doesn’t include the word “China” all over it, is probably propaganda of some sort. I won’t go more into this and I will allow people to do their homework and make up their own minds about the good and the bad of all of it, but Mya…

> Sanctions won’t work. They will just punish businesses that were stupid enough to work with Americans and Europeans. At the end of the day, Myanmar is going to come out of this period looking more like China than like the British colony it was before — guess what that’s meant to prepare us for, in terms of the way the world looks by the end of this century? Sanctions won’t work, but tanks would. The entirety of Mya…

What's the incentive for the US? There were clear objectives when US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Without those the invasion is anyway more trouble than its worth.

Re: Internet disrupted in Myanmar amid military coup

#50

Post by jiofih »

sva_ wrote: post #25
klunger wrote: post #5

A journalist is live tweeting updates here: https://twitter.com/the_ayeminthant/status/13560351897433088...

It's interesting that they say they've been logged out of Signal/Telegram and can't log back in due to being unable to receive a confirmation code as the cell services have been shut down. This type of thing seems to be happening more and more frequently. It is sad to see that there's not more of an effort to build (decentralized) communication technology independent from government/private infrastructure. I think we…

SMS for 2fa has always been a terrible idea. Use TOTP.
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