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Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

counterfeitingstock.com

111–120 of 403 posts

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#111
post #94

Very, very much a crank site. One pinch fact, two cups of confusion, and generous splash of seething rage. It's interesting in much the way the Timecube site is interesting...and is informative about financial markets in much the same way the Timecube site is as well.

Non American asking: What does crank mean here?

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#112
post #111
post #94

Very, very much a crank site. One pinch fact, two cups of confusion, and generous splash of seething rage. It's interesting in much the way the Timecube site is interesting...and is informative about financial markets in much the same way the Timecube site is as well.

Non American asking: What does crank mean here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_%28person%29

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#113
post #111
post #94

Very, very much a crank site. One pinch fact, two cups of confusion, and generous splash of seething rage. It's interesting in much the way the Timecube site is interesting...and is informative about financial markets in much the same way the Timecube site is as well.

Non American asking: What does crank mean here?

"a pejorative term used for a person who holds an unshakable belief that most of his or her contemporaries consider to be false."

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#114
post #94

Very, very much a crank site. One pinch fact, two cups of confusion, and generous splash of seething rage. It's interesting in much the way the Timecube site is interesting...and is informative about financial markets in much the same way the Timecube site is as well.

How so? Could you please explain for someone who only knows enough to see this as potentially credible? I tried to research timecube but can't see the connection.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#115
post #98
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? 1 stock = 1 stock. 1 stock should never be 2 stocks. It’s because I believe in ownership of what you make. If you founded a company, sold 10% on public markets for float, and magically 20% of your cap table now exists on the NYSE; something is horrifically wrong. And yes, you would have suffered negative financial outcomes because of the counterfeiting.

Your explanation makes a lot of sense. Nonetheless it's bit of a hard sell as it seems to parallel fractional reserve banking to a degree, and we've come to accept the later as the best currently available compromise.

I think the dilution from fractional reserve banking is priced into the buying power of each dollar somehow.

You never look at the value of a dollar as the % of total dollars in circulation. The value of a dollar is rather defined by how many goods/services/other currencies you can get in exchange for it.

With stock it matters a lot more how many % of a company is represented by a single share.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#116

Shitty companies failing is a necessary and important mechanism of a functioning economy. Look at the Soviet Union for an example of what happens when no companies ever go bankrupt. Short activists expose shitty companies and as such, they play an important role in the economy. Maybe Wirecard's fraud scheme would still be going on if it wasn't for short sellers. Maybe shorting, in particular naked shorting, is not id…

> Shitty companies failing is a necessary and important mechanism of a functioning economy.

What about shitty hedge funds overusing illegal[1] financial mechanisms to their advantage?

[1]: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nakedshorting.asp

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#117
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article also deals with the parts about actually defaming, attacking in courts and otherwise doing everything possible to actually bankrupt the company... It doesn't only cover the stock market, it covers the whole operation, which goes way beyond only the stock market.

Rules already exist around what you can and can't say as a short seller. What is it that you don't like about them? Do you think no one should be allowed to say negative things about companies? Shorts can't drive companies in the ground if that's not where they're headed anyway. First of all most short sellers are not activists. The perception that shorts causing companies to tank is because activist short sellers ar…

I was answering to the points about "the stock market should not kill an healthy company".

This article isn't about the stock market, it's about short sellers and the activity of those isn't contained to the stock market.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#118

Shitty companies failing is a necessary and important mechanism of a functioning economy. Look at the Soviet Union for an example of what happens when no companies ever go bankrupt. Short activists expose shitty companies and as such, they play an important role in the economy. Maybe Wirecard's fraud scheme would still be going on if it wasn't for short sellers. Maybe shorting, in particular naked shorting, is not id…

> Maybe shorting, in particular naked shorting, is not ideal. But there needs to be a way to reward people for taking shitty companies down.

And there's already a less risky mechanism for that: put options.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#119
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the mechanism by which you think shortsellers cause companies to go bankrupt? Can you think of any examples of short sellers causing a bankruptcy?

They soak up investor money that would have otherwise gone towards sufficiently capitalizing the company (via equity raises).

Short selling has both supply and demand effects. So while it 'soaks up investor money' it also creates demand for incremental money through lower prices.The laws right now basically exist to constrain the supply that can be brought on quickly to prevent that getting of line. That's one of the main reasons to ban naked short selling - because it removes the friction to massive and infinite supply increase. It's also super risky because if you don't succeed you end up short a bunch of shares at artificially lower prices. So practically the scenario you are worried about is already addressed in securities regulation.

I would say that short sellers are even more important around primary transactions because then share price matters more. Good prices prevent new investors being left holding the bag and inefficient allocation of capital which could have gone to a different business with better investment opportunities.

Re: Counterfeiting Stock – Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation

#120
post #94

Very, very much a crank site. One pinch fact, two cups of confusion, and generous splash of seething rage. It's interesting in much the way the Timecube site is interesting...and is informative about financial markets in much the same way the Timecube site is as well.

This entire topic has been poorly addressed. I don’t think I’ve had stronger Gell Mann vibes on HN than I’m having with this story.
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