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WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

seirdy.one

91–100 of 112 posts

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#91
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! Also prior to WhatsApp messaging was even more of a walled garden. The ‘best’ was BBM - I lived in Canada for a year and you pretty much needed a blackberry to message friends because that’s what everyone had. I had moved back to the U.K. when the iPhone came out, and I originally didn’t want it because a lack of BBM meant it would be more difficult to keep in touch with my Canadian friends. When WhatsApp…

BBM has one great feature that I haven't seen replicated by any other platform - and it's so obvious, I assume RIM must have patented it: Sending a contact your real-time location for a set period of time. It was very convenient to be able to send someone you're supposed to meet an automatically updating location status.

Telegram does this

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#92
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! Also prior to WhatsApp messaging was even more of a walled garden. The ‘best’ was BBM - I lived in Canada for a year and you pretty much needed a blackberry to message friends because that’s what everyone had. I had moved back to the U.K. when the iPhone came out, and I originally didn’t want it because a lack of BBM meant it would be more difficult to keep in touch with my Canadian friends. When WhatsApp…

BBM has one great feature that I haven't seen replicated by any other platform - and it's so obvious, I assume RIM must have patented it: Sending a contact your real-time location for a set period of time. It was very convenient to be able to send someone you're supposed to meet an automatically updating location status.

WhatsApp has this.

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#93
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of users don't care about the underlying encryption. That's a problem, in a sense, but the core problem here is the network effect. That it's the natural behaviour of people doesn't make it not a problem.

It makes a difference that there is not an obvious comparable alternative. The network effect works both ways: if key people in my network are convinced to switch, other people will follow.

When I think of networks of friends and family I don't think that's the case. You'll need something approaching 50%+1.

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#94
post #47

I am not sure where to begin. WhatsApp didn't create any of these. Before that it was MSN, and before MSN it was ICQ / AIM. Instant messenger has been around for a very long time. Every Single criticism of WhatsApp could be said to any of the above. I felt the author made it as WhatsApp was specifically designed from Facebook for target advertising. For a long time, even after Facebook acquisition WhatsApp has little…

> Microsoft refuse to accept Smartphone is the future of computing hence there never was MSN on Smartphone.

This. When WhatsApp came around, it wasn't free, but it was the a lightweight cross-platform mobile chat that worked. The only other smartphone-friendly chat app was Blackberry Messenger (BBM) -- and only on Blackberry. iMessage didn't exist.

Google Chat was light and unobtrusive on the desktop, and there were some 3rd party clients for GChat on iOS, but Google then decided to throw out GChat and build a few new chat systems from scratch. MSN Messenger never worked IIRC, and improvements to Skype came too little too late.

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#95
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was also a timing issue. Paying per SMS was a thing in the US when texting was novel ($0.10/SMS or so, IIRC?) but the US seemed to move to unlimited texting sooner than most places. However, today in the European country I live in it's almost impossible to find plans that don't include unlimited SMS, but it perhaps happened "too late" to take over messaging now that online platforms offer effectively free…

As a European teenager I always laughed at America for having to pay for SMS receipt. Ours were free and sending was free up to some ridiculously huge amount. Then I started dating a girl from another town and got a $500 sms bill. Oops This was before data, WAP was barely a thing. Circa 2004. We texted our days away at school. Got very good at touch typing under the desk.

Similar memories here, but I got very creative to fit inside the free SMS limit. The limit was something you'd ordinarily think ridiculous even on cheap plans, IIRC I had 1000 texts/month in the plan, and the equivalent for pre-paids was also very cheap. It turns out 1000 text messages a month is enough for everyone except teenagers in love.

Also I remember people in my circles laughing at Americans, because we believed that the US doesn't have SMS service for some reason.

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#96
I'm extremely weary of using the term 'domestication'.

In social sciences and evolutionary biology, 'domestication' has a specific meaning which has changed over time.

Past definitions of domestication put emphasis on the who was the lead partner in the relationship. Modern insights, however, have shifted that definition towards recognizing domestication as a mutual relationship in which both partners gain benefits.

Moreover, domestication is specifically defined as a mutual relationship with one organism exerting influence over the care and reproduction of another organism.

The dynamic described by the author isn't a mutual relationship, as demonstrated in the blogpost, nor a relationship having - obviously - "care" or "reproduction" are at its core.

Morever, this sounds a lot like hyperbole:

> WhatsApp rose by trapping previously-free beings in their corral and changing their habits to create dependence on masters. Over time, this made it difficult or impossible to return to their previous lifestyle.

Okay, so this is where I'm going to play advocate of the devil.

What does the author mean with "previously-free" exactly? Are users being actively corralled like cattle into an enclosure? Or is that figure of speech to drive a point home about the importance of FOSS in the second part of the article?

> Free software is a necessary but sometimes insufficient requirement to build domestication immunity.

There is no such thing as "domestication immunity". That doesn't exist.

Species evolve over multiple generations towards a mutually beneficial relationship, usually driven by environmental circumstances e.g. dogs and cats are massively "successful" species for the simple sake that their domestication ensured their survival across generations, whereas wild variants are less "successful" (e.g. bobcats or lynxes) and have become endangered because they didn't adapt to a changing environment over tens of thousands of years.

Domestication is an emerging evolutionary trait. It's not something any species is "immune" against.

Language matters. Whenever biological or evolutionary terms are used to explain market dynamics, that raises a few red flags with me.

Of course, there's a problem. WhatsApp is part of a larger industrial complex which specifically aims to wholesale capture markets, root out competition and accumulate wealth on an unprecedented scale.

The best comparison you can make between large tech companies and the past would be the Dutch East Indian Company which was a proto-conglomerate, a megacorporation and example of an early-modern corporate model of a vertically integrated global supply chain. [1]

The same criticisms espoused in the blogpost - restrictions of freedom, alleged violence - were made against the VOC as well: monopolisation, exploitation, colonisation, violence and slavery. [2]

None of this is new from a historic perspective. It's just the same dynamics emerging again, but in a digital space which spills over and fundamentally affects the lives of countless of individuals in ways that couldn't be foreseen.

Rather then looking at the larger picture of how these large corporations operate and their uncanny semblance with past predecessors which yield valuable historic lessons, the author double downs on the importance of "free software" as a measure against these practices.

I'm weary of such principled takes on "free software" as well.

> With user domestication, providing useful software to users is a means to the end of exploiting them. The alternative is simple: make serving users the end in and of itself.

It sounds nice in theory, but it's really a veiled reformulation of Kant's Categorical Imperative. [3] Many philosphers - Schoppenhauer and Kierkegaard - have shown that such categorical and principled takes can, paradoxically, lose their value as well.

Why would "make serving users the end in and of itself" be a thing? What does this even mean? Why would I want to serve users for the sake of serving users? Isn't that a circular argument that carries absolutely no value in itself?

The concept of freedom only gains importance when you tie it to the human condition, to human goals, incentives and motives. To the things that makes humans human. Freedom and free software helps empower people to act on their own dreams, their own path in life,... Whether it's writing a book, starting a small business, making art, starting a family, choosing where to live,... without some anonymous corporation comprising those wishes for the sake of profit.

As soon as you start to think about this in concrete terms, it should become clear that slapping free software licenses on codebases alone isn't going to save the world either. And it's extremely important to recognize that as well.

Whether you like it or not, how humanity will have to confront big tech corporations and their global impact has surpassed the notions of the importance of IRC, Matrix or XMPP over WhatsApp quite a long time ago.

For sure, it's important to promote the existence of alternatives and raise awareness. Absolutely. But the entire 'user domestication' perspective takes it one notch too far of the mark.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company#Colon... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#97
post #36

People forget that WhatsApp used to have a subscription that cost $1 per year. With 1 billion users that's plenty enough money to pay for their infrastructure. Imagine if they'd kept that business model rather than being bought out by FB and sucked into their data harvesting swamp.

Yes, but many of the people who use the service are in developing countries where free is always considered better. If they had to charge those people WhatsApp never would have taken off in those locales like it has.

> in developing countries where free is always considered better

Free is considered better by everyone everywhere.

Which makes me think back to the anti-open-source propaganda of the 90s, that hippie commies will ruin software by giving everything away for free. While this was ridiculed back in the day, I think we can see now that there was quite a big nugget of truth in it. In the past decades, we've discovered the perfect, competition-destroying, ubermodel of software distribution: free, subsidized by advertising. This model is a source of unending pathologies (including, but not limited to, the ones described in the article), and it cannot be reasonably competed with.

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#98
post #47

I am not sure where to begin. WhatsApp didn't create any of these. Before that it was MSN, and before MSN it was ICQ / AIM. Instant messenger has been around for a very long time. Every Single criticism of WhatsApp could be said to any of the above. I felt the author made it as WhatsApp was specifically designed from Facebook for target advertising. For a long time, even after Facebook acquisition WhatsApp has little…

> Microsoft refuse to accept Smartphone is the future of computing hence there never was MSN on Smartphone. This. When WhatsApp came around, it wasn't free, but it was the a lightweight cross-platform mobile chat that worked . The only other smartphone-friendly chat app was Blackberry Messenger (BBM) -- and only on Blackberry. iMessage didn't exist. Google Chat was light and unobtrusive on the desktop, and there were…

> When WhatsApp came around, it wasn't free.

For me, the fact that WhatsApp wasn't free was a plus. "Hey, maybe for once I am not the product". How naive of me.

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#99
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European teenager I always laughed at America for having to pay for SMS receipt. Ours were free and sending was free up to some ridiculously huge amount. Then I started dating a girl from another town and got a $500 sms bill. Oops This was before data, WAP was barely a thing. Circa 2004. We texted our days away at school. Got very good at touch typing under the desk.

In no way was SMS free across all of Europe. It also depended on your plan, the cheaper the plan, the less freebies you had and parents never got their kids the top spec plan. My parents only got me a cell-phone with a pre-paid SIM for "emergencies" and didn't have enough credit on it to text too many people so IM over yahoo! messenger on the PC was used by teens for chatting at the time. Growing up in Eastern Europe…

The same thing was possible with PCs too! All the way to Windows XP, there was a built-in dial program (HyperTerminal) that let you send files and chat over the phone line directly, outside the Internet, and only the person initiating the connection would be the one paying, since it was fundamentally just a phone call.

It was also awesome because it bypassed the Internet. It could work if you were censored, didn't have an ISP or if the Internet was completely shutdown (I used it for exactly that when Egypt shutdown the Internet in Jan 2011).

https://scintrexltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Data-Tran...

https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/windows-xp-in/059600900...

Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users

#100
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European teenager I always laughed at America for having to pay for SMS receipt. Ours were free and sending was free up to some ridiculously huge amount. Then I started dating a girl from another town and got a $500 sms bill. Oops This was before data, WAP was barely a thing. Circa 2004. We texted our days away at school. Got very good at touch typing under the desk.

Similar memories here, but I got very creative to fit inside the free SMS limit. The limit was something you'd ordinarily think ridiculous even on cheap plans, IIRC I had 1000 texts/month in the plan, and the equivalent for pre-paids was also very cheap. It turns out 1000 text messages a month is enough for everyone except teenagers in love. Also I remember people in my circles laughing at Americans, because we belie…

It used to be around 8 cents back home per text. When you're in love, 1000 messages for 80$ was more than the average monthly wage back then..luckily most teens were on pre-paid plans.
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