I am not sure where to begin. WhatsApp didn't create any of these. Before that it was MSN, and before MSN it was ICQ / AIM. Instant messenger has been around for a very long time. Every Single criticism of WhatsApp could be said to any of the above. I felt the author made it as WhatsApp was specifically designed from Facebook for target advertising. For a long time, even after Facebook acquisition WhatsApp has little…
WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
71–80 of 112 posts
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#72For most people, the calculus is simple: they want to live their lives and have little interest in the tools themselves. The author mentioned the emotional drain they felt each time they had to reiterate their stance on privacy to people, but failed to consider the validity of the mirror image sentiment there, that is to say the frustrated puzzlement of friends and acquaintances just wanting to interact without jumping through hoops and bothering with things that they do not intrinsically care about. This is the same theory of mind issue that causes many open source programs to be plagued with poor UIs. The enjoyment of feelings of superiority prevents the very empathy and understanding that would not only diminish it but could also ironically probably lead to better privacy-focused services that more people would adopt.
That's not to say that I don't think online privacy is tremendously important, just that there are multiple dimensions to it. It collectively matters, but for any random individual to be concerned is often the result of vanity. In reality, there are too many people jostling for attention for any one person to have a statistically likely chance of being scrutinized, even if it does happen regularly given the size of the world. Even social norms themselves are changing to make a wider range of lifestyles acceptable, further shrinking the problem from the individual's perspective. Prominent individuals are now doing things that would be frowned upon a decade ago, and doing well. In the end, perhaps the prospect of being revealed as unimportant after all can be much more terrifying than the familiar and more manageable fear of tech surveillance.
Note that I am not making the tired "but I have nothing to hide!" argument but simply stating that attitudes to privacy can't simply be divided between "intelligent and perceptive software persons" and "silly, animal-like masses". Ressentiment and casting the rest of society as inferior is a classic trap that only leaves misery in its wake.
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#73People forget that WhatsApp used to have a subscription that cost $1 per year. With 1 billion users that's plenty enough money to pay for their infrastructure. Imagine if they'd kept that business model rather than being bought out by FB and sucked into their data harvesting swamp.
Yes, but many of the people who use the service are in developing countries where free is always considered better. If they had to charge those people WhatsApp never would have taken off in those locales like it has.
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#74Social media and instant messaging giants of the world are incentivised to prefer the captive user over the paying user. (I prefer the term “lock-in” over “domestication” to highlight the ethically questionable nature of it.) A piece of US legislation could address this. For example, if a business that connects people to people—such as a social network, an instant messenger, etc.—grows larger than X users, it could b…
Some of those third party clients will abuse user data, and then the original platform will be held responsible for allowing it.
Holding messaging service provider accountable for what a third-party client does in this scenario would be similar to holding mobile service provider accountable for actions of a phone manufacturer.
True though, in this scenario popular client apps (as well as their runtime, including OS) could become higher-value targets, and infosec research would grow more valuable.
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#75I am not sure where to begin. WhatsApp didn't create any of these. Before that it was MSN, and before MSN it was ICQ / AIM. Instant messenger has been around for a very long time. Every Single criticism of WhatsApp could be said to any of the above. I felt the author made it as WhatsApp was specifically designed from Facebook for target advertising. For a long time, even after Facebook acquisition WhatsApp has little…
That being said, several others have mentioned how WhatsApp wasn't the first IM platform of its kind. When a misinterpretation is this prevalent, it's the author's (i.e. my) fault: https://xkcd.com/1984/
I've since updated the article to clarify that point. Diff: https://git.sr.ht/~seirdy/seirdy.one/commit/93846a469b5581ec...
> It then made its point about User domestication. Which really is a FOSS, GPL, Richard Stallman angle on Software. I argue it would be the same with many of today's software.
So did I; I listed two more examples. User domestication is a widespread problem worth addressing. WhatsApp is a good example.
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but many of the people who use the service are in developing countries where free is always considered better. If they had to charge those people WhatsApp never would have taken off in those locales like it has.
How much money can you expect to make from users that can't afford $1/year? I can't imagine that you get a lot from ads in that target population.
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#77There's this undercurrent in the FOSS community of people deriving a sense of superiority from using such software. This article is an excellent example with its use of the idea of domestication and other such terms meant to distance the author from the hapless masses. For most people, the calculus is simple: they want to live their lives and have little interest in the tools themselves. The author mentioned the emot…
Part of the point of the article was to argue that users shouldn't be treated as livestock by companies; they should be served by vendors rather than be in service of vendors. I wanted people to think it's bad to treat normal users as lesser beings to be exploited.
In other words: you're right. My article agrees with you.
If you think the message wasn't communicated clearly enough, I'm open to suggestions on how I could clarify this.
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#78Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#79I am not sure where to begin. WhatsApp didn't create any of these. Before that it was MSN, and before MSN it was ICQ / AIM. Instant messenger has been around for a very long time. Every Single criticism of WhatsApp could be said to any of the above. I felt the author made it as WhatsApp was specifically designed from Facebook for target advertising. For a long time, even after Facebook acquisition WhatsApp has little…
The ‘best’ was BBM - I lived in Canada for a year and you pretty much needed a blackberry to message friends because that’s what everyone had.
I had moved back to the U.K. when the iPhone came out, and I originally didn’t want it because a lack of BBM meant it would be more difficult to keep in touch with my Canadian friends. When WhatsApp came out and adoption was super quick I could finally jump ship, because it meant overseas texting for free without BBM.
Of course if blackberry wasn’t greedy and was forward thinking, they could have copied BBM and made it available on other platforms, and if done well it would probably have been a massive success.
So I agree that it’s not accurate to imply that everything was super open prior to WhatsApp - they spotted a gap in the market and wrote the best software to fill it that was available at the time.
Re: WhatsApp and the Domestication of Users
#80Would Signal have been able to roll out sealed sender / private groups / many of their other security features in a federated system, without leading to a fragmented experience? While most people would probably be able to download an XMPP client and sign up for an account, you'd lose them once you start explaining that they can't send encrypted messages to their friend on another server because that server doesn't support the necessary XEPs.
The importance of usable security seems to be ignored here, as is often the case in technical circles.