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GitHub Should Start an App Store

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Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#201

Post by [deleted] »

whatshisface wrote: post #116
simias wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is situational and opportunistic. It can change any day. In fact, managing an important app store is exactly one way to re-(un)-balance this relationship. I agree. Sorting huge, multinational, publicly traded companies in friends and enemies list is so obviously bogus and immature that it baffles me that this is so prevalent. Microsoft is not your enemy. It's not your friend (unless you're one of the shareholde…

It's repeated very often that companies maximize shareholder value, but that's not really true. Companies follow the personal interests of their management and employees, in proportion to their power within the institution, which sometimes involves shareholder value.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#202

Post by wh33zle »

klyrs wrote: post #144
syshum wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really is a generational divide, those of US that were around for the 90's and early 00's Microsoft crap still have a bad taste for the "new Microsoft" that claims to love FLOSS (while still showing many signs of EEE.. ) During that time Google was very friendly to FLOSS, and open protocols (remember when GChat was just a XMPP client) Today MS and Google seems to have flipped, Google now is fully embracing Embra…

Yeah, I was there. I have a long view and cynicism that m$ has retreated to the Embrace phase. To vastly oversimplify their governance, they're a new CEO away from Extend and Extinguish. Lately, I love what they've been doing. Even github -- there have been disappointments, for sure, but nothing like the egregious misbehavior in the bad old days. But given their history; given Google's "do no evil" bait&switch... I d…

There is F-droid but its success is unfortunately only moderate at best.

Element is actually in the F-droid store but the version is outdated.

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#203

Post by franciscop »

> This is a minor but users will be able to raise issues with developers directly instead writing comments over app pages which I think you would agree completely suck.

Would love to hear OSS App authors thoughts on this. I've seen some complaining about the review system on the App Stores, but I think it could also add a lot of maintenance burden, so wondering what they think.

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#204

Post by deathanatos »

coconut08 wrote: post #200
forbiddenvoid wrote: post #194

Or we could just stop using app stores. Honestly, I've yet to find an argument for the existence of an app store that holds water. Let people install what they want. Provide reasonable paths to update and upgrade and cut out the middle layer. The layer of control that Google and Apple exert over people is anti-competitive. But the answer isn't competing app stores. I don't need someone to tell me what I can or can't…

all you need to do is look at the windows ecosystem vs the linux one to realize how important a software hub is. windows is a place where people download random one off pieces of software that may or may not be safe, will likely never be updated, and will sit and rot on your computer until the end of time, and are entirely unvetted whereas linux maintains all of your software for you, keeps it frequently up to date,…

I think it's easy enough to imagine implementations that allow the addition of software vendors to the package system that permits regular updates. Many of the Linux package managers (e.g., Apt, Portage) permit this; for example, on Gentoo, I install Steam by adding Valve (/Steam) as a place that the package manager can obtain packages from.

That's not to say Apt/Portage are by any means perfect; the nature of how they are configured is definitely not going to be friendly to your typical Windows user. But I think it is possible to wrap that in a UI that adequately expresses "okay, you're adding the ability to install software from this vendor, and [the package manager] will help keep it patched & up-to-date."

I think we also need to combine that with better security models, so that desktop software isn't necessarily granted access to everything by default.

But UI design trends have spent the last decade "simplifying" UIs down so much that they fail to solve the problem at hand.

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#205

Post by [deleted] »

rodgerd wrote: post #182
shakezula wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal and admittedly startup-prevalent experience with boards, I definitely think they operate more emotionally than most might think. Even companies I’ve worked with in the double to triple digit millions of worth function on far more emotional and interpersonal levels than most might think. Sure, money is the major motivator, but it’s all a machine driven by humans that are gut-based emotion bags.

It's not just startups. I've seen execs at old-school companies act worse than a 5 year old, alas. People are not rational actors, and the myth that we are is incredibly harmful.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#206

Post by klyrs »

wh33zle wrote: post #202
klyrs wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was there. I have a long view and cynicism that m$ has retreated to the Embrace phase. To vastly oversimplify their governance, they're a new CEO away from Extend and Extinguish. Lately, I love what they've been doing. Even github -- there have been disappointments, for sure, but nothing like the egregious misbehavior in the bad old days. But given their history; given Google's "do no evil" bait&switch... I d…

There is F-droid but its success is unfortunately only moderate at best. Element is actually in the F-droid store but the version is outdated.

Yeah, I "use" fdroid. Usually that means searching for apps, finding their download links broken, and then finding the apk on a couple skeezy-looking apk download pages and checking that they checksum the same (verifying, at best, that the skeezy sites have the same possibly hacked apk... ick)

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#207

Post by forbiddenvoid »

coconut08 wrote: post #200
forbiddenvoid wrote: post #194

Or we could just stop using app stores. Honestly, I've yet to find an argument for the existence of an app store that holds water. Let people install what they want. Provide reasonable paths to update and upgrade and cut out the middle layer. The layer of control that Google and Apple exert over people is anti-competitive. But the answer isn't competing app stores. I don't need someone to tell me what I can or can't…

all you need to do is look at the windows ecosystem vs the linux one to realize how important a software hub is. windows is a place where people download random one off pieces of software that may or may not be safe, will likely never be updated, and will sit and rot on your computer until the end of time, and are entirely unvetted whereas linux maintains all of your software for you, keeps it frequently up to date,…

This argument really doesn't resonate with me. Like, if people want to download trash on their Windows computer, who am I to stop them? You can do that on your Mac and Linux devices too. People don't need to be protected by App Stores.

I'm not only concerned about that, though. The standard 30% cut of revenue flowing through the app if it was downloaded from the app store is also an issue.

In general, App Stores create a 'marketplace' where one doesn't need to exist. That it's the default method of getting software isn't really a benefit because it makes self-distribution harder (or impossible - which is really the anticompetitive issue here).

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#208

Post by mulmen »

Irishsteve wrote: post #109
vagrantJin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The devs are the consumers. So it can be a niche store? I dont know what a normal person would be doing on github.

What I meant is - GitHub could create a Google Play store. The supply side (Devs) are on GitHub in abundance, so they could have a big catalog. If GitHub could somehow solve the demand side (Phone users) they'd be sorted.

And you can’t see the problem with creating a situation where Microsoft is in direct competition with all the ways you can already deploy this code?

That light at the end of this tunnel is an oncoming train. Not freedom.

Re: GitHub Should Start an App Store

#210

Post by dane-pgp »

MereInterest wrote: post #193
dane-pgp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that no one has ever unironically used "politically correct", "social justice warrior", or "woke" to describe themselves or their opinions? I'm not saying that the response to it isn't rooted in some deeper fear, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon they are afraid of doesn't exist.

My first exposure to the term "social justice" was several years ago, when a family member began working with local jails and businesses, personally visiting and establishing relationships with inmates, and working to help reduce recidivism by arranging jobs for former inmates. I have never heard the addendum "warrior" added as a self-description, and have only ever heard it applied as a term of mockery from the righ…

> I have never heard the addendum "warrior" added as a self-description, and have only ever heard it applied as a term of mockery from the right.

I'm reluctant to name specific individuals, but there are people who embrace the "SJW" term for themselves. For example, the flair next to the username of this semi-famous developer[0] is a self-description that he is known for.[1]

Perhaps you could argue that he is being ironic, but it is a self-description and he certainly doesn't mean to mock people who identify that way.

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2fddvg/im_matthew_ga...

[1] https://ostatic.com/blog/matthew-garrett-quits-kernel-to-do-...

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