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Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#941

Post by tjalfi »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #736
Spivak wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s funny that they think Google cares at all about the implementation details of your service. The only thing that matters to app reviewers is what the user sees when they use it. If you make your app technically unmoderatable, impossible to remove illegal content, or impossible to respond to DMCA requests you don’t get to just throw your hands up.

> The only thing that matters to app reviewers is what the user sees when they use it. If that were true, web browsers would be in trouble.

Older protocols such as HTTP are grandfathered in; if the web was invented last week, browsers probably would be blocked periodically.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#942

Post by sova »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #775
sova wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it was Franklin who said "The man who sacrifices liberty for security will get neither" (paraphrasing) ... however, it's not a common sentiment among law-enforcement officials who prefer quiet over creativity. You are right that it ought not be considered by sane citizens in a free country, but what do you tell the appointed officials that try so desperately to make it so?

Nothing. If they try to pressure it's inclusion we remove it, if they sneak it in we'll find it. That's the beauty of free software.

Hardware is not so easily audited

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#943

Post by UncleMeat »

kenneth wrote: post #902
UncleMeat wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app is back up and the Element folks agreed that there was what sounds like child pornography reachable from their domain. Overzealous automation perhaps, but obviously not a conspiracy.

Element is not Matrix.org. You can view child porn on Chrome, or receive it by email, or download it by Torrent. Yet I don't see anyone banning web browsers, email clients, and Bittorrent client.

And the takedown was reversed. It is clear that Google now believes that the app is not in violation.

The point is that this is well explained by something other than conspiracy.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#944

Post by Dylan16807 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #910
Dylan16807 wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then how do you actually do the rooting in a way that doesn't make your phone fail to boot? What model of phone?

I'd add that there's a wealth of information (and not just about rooting/unlocking bootloaders) about Android tools, software, development and phone capabilities here: https://www.xda-developers.com/

I am... aware. For a general search on this topic I tend to get results about oneplus, for example, that say that relocking breaks it.

And samsung just won't unlock US models.

And xiaomi factory resets the phone when relocking.

Searching for relock root android gives very unhelpful results in general.

I did learn there's one specific model of motorola where the "lock" just doesn't work, and that's amusing but not very useful.

So I meant your phone specifically. Not just rooting, but rooting with a currently-locked bootloader. Please tell me a little bit about an example where this actually works. And hopefully passes safetynet, and will keep passing safetynet with hardware attestation.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#945

Post by outloudvi »

Good to see Element back.

I want to mention that Fedilab [1] and Subway Tooter [2], two famous apps used for Mastodon (or ActivityPub), a decentralized social network, had also been taken down by Google Play with the same reason.

1. https://qoto.org/@freemo/104765288863293481

2. https://mastodon.juggler.jp/@tateisu/104761652569820793

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#946

Post by rglullis »

o-__-o wrote: post #937
rglullis wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Signal was the only alternative to have an internal messaging tool, sure, it would make sense to invest time and money on it to keep it up. But it doesn't. There are options. If I had to choose, I would rather invest this time and money to collaborate on the existing protocols that do have the goal of being fully open. Matrix and XMPP can do the things that I want and there are plenty of people working on them to…

Because the signal client is very straightforward and easy to use. You gonna teach your grandma how to connect to a mumble or matrix server? I know you are a nerd but your users are not.

My grandma does not use any kind of phone, so it is going to be hard to get her to Element or Signal or anything.

However, my mother does use Element to talk with me and it wasn't that hard to help her download an app, tell her where to put the username and what is the name of the matrix server and quickly she was on her way to start a call and setup a room with the rest of the family where I share the pictures of her grandkids.

My users may not be nerds, but they are not stupid. They can learn.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#947

Post by boomboomsubban »

sova wrote: post #942
boomboomsubban wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. If they try to pressure it's inclusion we remove it, if they sneak it in we'll find it. That's the beauty of free software.

Hardware is not so easily audited

A design choice, not a necessity.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#948

Post by pmlnr »

pmlnr wrote: post #500
Arathorn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

This is insane. This jeopardizes every email, xmpp, matrix, etc; basically any 3rd party application.

Update: from what I read, the reasoning can probably only effects systems where history is stored - slack, matrix, to name two. IRC most probably not, XMPP only if configured. Email: unlikely, it's a very different system.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#949

Post by orthecreedence »

throwaway3699 wrote: post #901
orthecreedence wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pure capitalism (anarchy) is just people exchanging things via barter. Anarchy and capitalism are two extremely different things, and also there are methods of free association ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_association_(Marxism_and_... ) that allow for distributed production without any centralization OR private ownership of production/profit-driven exchange. Granted, we're far off from these things probably…

Ah, I mean the purest form of capitalism is one without any government or monetary system controlling the currency or tax on transactions. I think this is a reasonable statement. Capitalism, much like democracy it's the least-worst system out there. I believe most of the problems we're facing with it are challenges of scale. Especially in the US, it's just too big. Maybe breaking everything up back to the state level…

> Maybe breaking everything up back to the state level would be a good idea?

No matter what, I'm almost always in favor of decentralization/distribution of power and resources, so I could get behind this.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#950

Post by Spivak »

Sunspark wrote: post #843
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only thing that matters to app reviewers is what the user sees when they use it. If that were true, web browsers would be in trouble.

I understand Google Chrome can be used to view objectionable illegal content.

It’s not that the app can be used to view the content. It’s that Matrix apps are basically matrix.org clients with an option to use another home server if you want. If you followed the default onboarding you get a Matrix.org account. It’s the default blessed server from the project. So Element will now forever get blowback from public content hosted on Matrix.org.
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