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CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

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Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get those 73 engineers in a room, then what? What do they write? You get 15 engineers, 3 DBAs, 5 sys admins + their managers. While that's spinning up, you get a bunch of business analyists to write the requirements. A first version gets written, it doesn't do what people want and the data it works from is really crappy, so you have to write a bunch of custom edge logic to deal with the crappy data. Repeat severa…

Ideally the requirements gathering wouldn't be a pile of tick boxes. Get them to sit next to the users (especially UI/UX) and see how the process happen. Ask questions. See how data entry people work. (Ideally. In the real world it will be a very thorny and boring process)

Yes, and in the process of that discovery it turns out the "process" is 100 different processes for 100 different people. One person performs data entry by faxing a handwritten list of excel data. One person just tells the current DBA what to put into the DB. One person uses a homegrown webapp that some intern built to automate some of their process.

"This is asinine!" you say. "Just make sure you dont break our existing workflow" they reply.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#592

Having seen Federal Govt contracting it’s easy to see how this works. And it’s a 2 way street of dysfunction: - Many fed agencies have little tech savvy or ability to evaluate solutions - Feds can have complex, mandated processes for software procurement, development and deployment that must be followed. This drives up the cost and limits the companies that choose to bid. - There’s not much of a “get sh*t done” attit…

>Wow - you spent 6 months building and it’s time to deploy? The security team really hates CYZ tech and we’ll have to escalate this to the director

This right here! The "cyber" folks always throw a wrench in the works at the last moment. They rule by FUD and also have literally ZERO idea how stuff works. There's an old saying about teaching, but these days, and especially in government contracting, it applies to "cybersecurity."

"Those who can, do. Those who can't go into security."

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#593
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: why doesn't the government have its own internal software development department at this point? One that's familiar with all the regulatory and bureaoucratic hurdles and the legacy systems, but doesn't have the incentive to grift. For the amount of money they spend on these contracts surely they could afford to pay competitive salaries?

As others have mentioned already, 18F and USDS are in this space. They do some work, but their scope and manpower is limited, and they try to multiply their impact through contracting. Part of that is helping federal agencies write better contracts to be able to source the kind of contractors they want --- ones who think in terms of product development, user research ("build with, not for"), and are using modern soft…

Nothing against your company, but when smaller companies get good long term contracts, they get bought up by larger companies and the good people leave and start new smaller companies.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#594
This is not atypical for US government projects. In 2012 I was brought in to “rescue” the UI for a huge multi-contractor system that was supposed to replace an aging legacy system written 40+ years ago.

I worked with the architect tirelessly for almost 3 years, trying to implement various changes but at its core the new system was highly flawed and suffered from various team changes and reboots. The UI/UX “expert” was not a developer and had very little technical background, and was therefore unfamiliar with basic HTML and CSS concepts. For some reason they let end-users dictate style and behavior aspects of the application. For example, the legacy system consisted of green-screen terminals and all the associated keystrokes (think ancient POS systems you still see in some retail stores). The vocal minority of these end-users demanded that we replicate this interface exactly instead of building it from the ground up as a modern best-practices UI using the latest web idioms and paradigms.

It gets worse. At some point someone important said Javascript is evil, and we were to avoid using it as much as possible, despite the application using several embedded and third-party Javascript libraries.

I ended up leaving that project for a slightly less insane one, but the pay was good. Anyway, I heard about a year later that the entire project (a 10-year effort that cost tens of millions of dollars) was abandoned. They continued using their greenscreens but I heard they hired a company to build an interface that reads these screens and presents a modern HTML facade over there screens that operates them kinda like a proxy.

You can’t make this stuff up.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#595
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly how American companies game the h1b visa system. When I worked at AVG we would write job requirement so specific to an Israel developers who worked for one of our subsidiaries that it was clear no other human being in the world could qualify for it.

Why Israeli developers? Just out of curiosity, do you have any recommendations for anti-virus software for mobile or for desktops?

[deleted]

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#596
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly how American companies game the h1b visa system. When I worked at AVG we would write job requirement so specific to an Israel developers who worked for one of our subsidiaries that it was clear no other human being in the world could qualify for it.

Why Israeli developers? Just out of curiosity, do you have any recommendations for anti-virus software for mobile or for desktops?

Oh just in this case I was working at a security company and everybody we imported were from Israel. I’ve worked st 3 security companies and they all either had Israeli offices or had acquired Israeli security startups. It just seems to be a thing there.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#597
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For various reasons this wouldn't work, you have the various bands of government salary https://federalnewsnetwork.com/pay/2020/01/more-top-career-e... >But for a GS-15, step 10 in Washington, his or her salary should total roughly $185,509 in 2020. But due to the federal pay ceiling, that same GS-15, step 10 in Washington will make the limit of $170,800 this year. And that's the absolute Max, after you go to the tro…

I hear this sort of objection for all sorts of civil-service employment. TBH, I'm surprised we've never seen a proposal of the form "Federal employee salaries are not subject to income tax." With a single line of legislation, that makes all federal job offers immediately 10-35% more competitive, without actually increasing salaries directly. Once you get that as precedent, I could see it being used aggressively as a…

I can't think of a worse solution. Sure, it effectively raises their salary, but it is full of moral pitfalls.

It is already outrageous that government employees are exempt from social security taxes.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#598

This is not atypical for US government projects. In 2012 I was brought in to “rescue” the UI for a huge multi-contractor system that was supposed to replace an aging legacy system written 40+ years ago. I worked with the architect tirelessly for almost 3 years, trying to implement various changes but at its core the new system was highly flawed and suffered from various team changes and reboots. The UI/UX “expert” wa…

I tend to side with that vocal minority on UI design.

I remember watching my friend who was a manager at a Domino's back in the day place an order for a pizza with their old POS system that was driven by key strokes, and it was ridiculously fast and easy. A pizza was a list of characters that described it.

Fast forward a decade, and I was tapping away at a touch-screen POS system for a smaller pizza chain, and it was woefully slow in comparison for even the most basic pizzas, and more error prone because Anchovies and Artichokes were right beside each other.

If you ever have a user-base where time=money, they will want hotkeys for everything.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#599
It baffles me how bad non-SaaS software tends to be. Software written for non-tech folks. We have a 100 shiny JIRA clones but some niche software for nurses has awful and slow UX.

Everytime I’ve gone to a doctor, they’re using a different kind of software portal. Many claim its an expensive software the hospital bought but doesn’t do what they want so they write things on paper instead.

This is one of my fears as a dev. I have dev problems that I know how to fix but I’m blind to the universe of other problems that I could potentially fix and deliver huge value. I’d really love to learn more about other people’s niche problems that can be solved by software.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, we should just expect free work from all developers. Because if you want to be a good developer, you have to meet this imaginary bar made up by other developers who want to show off about how "much extra work we do." The point is the ask for the 737 Max wasn't a "plane that doesn't work." It was for a plane that does work. That was the deliverable. It wasn't met. That is not doing the bare minimum.

And this situation is different how? The CDC needed a website that works. Deloitte did not deliver a website that works. If it had, it would not have been abandoned, flushing $44M of work down the drain. You could also apply this weaselly BS to Boeing. Their "ask", if there was one, was to make a plane that customers would buy and that would pass FAA review. Not "a plane that works". No one's contract just says "make…

They didn't meet the deliverable so they shouldn't be paid.

This isn't rocket science. Think.

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