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Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

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Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#271

Post by amelius »

krzepah wrote: post #255
mherrmann wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your concern and agree that I am being extremely direct. It's not out of spite. On the one hand, it comes from my frustration with what I as an engineer perceive to be wrong advice. It feels to me like OP is using Docker because he read a blog post about it somewhere, never seriously thought about alternatives, then stuck with it and now recommends it to others, repeating a cycle where software gets wors…

You are making judgments about OP using Docker. But from my point of view you are a true pain to work with because you do not containerise your work. Anytime I'd have to work with one of your creations I'd have to go figure what you are using, set it up and make sure it works. That's a waste of time and you are promoting that very fact because you were unable to figure any usage for it. I doubt OP has only "read some…

What if you want to run the code on a different architecture? In that case isn't it better to document which "pip install" etc. you have to perform to get it running? And from there do you really still need docker?

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#272

Post by simplecto »

TekMol wrote: post #137

Is there a benefit of running Postgres and Django in different containers? By putting them in the same container, things could be a good bit simpler. And I don't see any downside here.

Putting them in the same container means I have to manage the processes myself with something like supervisord. A docker-compose file makes this trivial because it is just a matter of a few lines of YAML that link the services together. It also means I can ship updates to my application and restart it without touching the rock-solid Postgres image.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#273

Post by sofixa »

Nextgrid wrote: post #25
banana_maker wrote: post #21

Can anyone answer why python is a choice anymore instead of i.e. golang for saas applications like this? I previously worked heavily with ruby and I cannot imagine building beyond >1000 LoC in interpreted, dynamically typed languages. Aside from developer familiarity which trumps all other points. It's also significantly easier to dockerize a generated binary from golang or rust, etc. Some of my worst docker headache…

What's the Django/Rails equivalent in Go? The value from Python isn't Python itself (though it might be easier to write in - trading off reliability for ease of use compared to a compiled language) but the ecosystem. Fully-featured frameworks such as Django, Rails, etc give you lots of functionality out of the box which is very valuable especially at the early stages of the project where performance isn't a concern y…

> What's the Django/Rails equivalent in Go?

Gin-gonic and a few others try to do that job ( and provide the flexibility to plug the missing parts), but a lot of people say the stdlib is sufficient. Depending on the he case, either can work great.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#274

Post by qudat »

mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

Docker compose and docker machine make deployments so simple. For development I don’t want all my side projects to share the same database, similar to them using the same python install.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#275

Post by willemmerson »

knowhy wrote: post #227
willemmerson wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At work I had to set up a server with django, postgres, SSL, rabbitmq, celery and a few other things. I did it in both ansible and docker-compose, the ansible version was 1500 lines and docker-compose version was 100 lines. A lot of the ansible stuff is dealing with users, groups, services, supervisord, virtualenvs and repositories - none of this is required in docker as containers restart themselves, users are alrea…

Most of the stuff you would be doing with Ansible happens inside the Dockerfiles. So comparing lines of code of your Ansible codebase with just the docker-compose file is not fair towards Ansible.

That 100 lines includes the Django docker file which is only 5 lines long, there are no other docker files, at least none I have to worry about.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#276

Post by pjfin123 »

domano wrote: post #205

Docker, traefik and debian auto-update alone allow me to run all my side projects on a single semi-beefy machine i pay I like to try new JS technologies and those alone sometimes need different node versions - i would hate to spend time on these issues. My deployment is 2 lines: DOCKER_HOST=ssh://user@mydomain.com docker-compose up Did not have to touch it for years

How do you do the auto updates?

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#277

Post by blandflakes »

laingc wrote: post #136
mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

This is a pretty common sentiment on HN and I’m sure you have your reasons for it, but to me personally it just seems bonkers. Docker is an absolutely game-changing tool for me. I can’t count the number of times it’s saved me from completely screwed up system libraries, tools installing config files in weird places, conflicting versions of this or that, or other versions of system pollution. I write a simple docker-c…

I'm a bit of a docker cynic, but if you tell me I have to deploy any of Ruby, Python, Node.js, or Perl, I'm using docker to manage the dependencies. My opinion is that this is actually docker's primary value-add. Yes, it enables who hosts of orchestration benefits, but it also makes it actually possible to just package these runtimes in a reasonable-ish way.

For platforms which support more self-contained binaries, I'm going to keep trying to avoid docker as much as possible.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#278

Post by woile »

mherrmann wrote: post #139
laingc wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty common sentiment on HN and I’m sure you have your reasons for it, but to me personally it just seems bonkers. Docker is an absolutely game-changing tool for me. I can’t count the number of times it’s saved me from completely screwed up system libraries, tools installing config files in weird places, conflicting versions of this or that, or other versions of system pollution. I write a simple docker-c…

Sure, we're all just talking about our personal experiences. I just haven't run into the problems you describe. I use virtual environments to keep my system installation clean, and PostgreSQL / Nginx are so stable that the version I happen to have on my dev machine usually works with all my projects dating back to 2014 (but kept up-to-date).

I find it really useful for development. For example when I configure nginx + a service, if it works in my local env, I have to run one command and I'll have the same in prod, and I don't have to debug in the server. Also is useful to keep track of the OS dependencies.

But it ends up being a matter of preference, I could still do it without it, but I'm used to it now, for some reason I feel that it makes my systems more "reproducible" in a simpler way.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#279

Post by jgb1984 »

banana_maker wrote: post #21

Can anyone answer why python is a choice anymore instead of i.e. golang for saas applications like this? I previously worked heavily with ruby and I cannot imagine building beyond >1000 LoC in interpreted, dynamically typed languages. Aside from developer familiarity which trumps all other points. It's also significantly easier to dockerize a generated binary from golang or rust, etc. Some of my worst docker headache…

I've been writing python for a living for about 13 years now. I've dabbled in go, but found it incredibly verbose and of a much lower level than python. The error handling alone is enough to turn me off completely. So much boilerplate, so much code and words to express even simple things.

No thanks, I'll stick with python, for me it is the perfect balance between expressiveness and being easy to read.

Also Django itself and the python ecosystem is hard to beat. It gets out of my way so that I can focus on the business logic, instead of reinventing wheels.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#280

Post by treis »

rufius wrote: post #94
treis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Honestly, frameworks like Rails or Django are an anti-pattern for Golang. Which is, IMHO, the biggest thing holding Go back. The standard library does a lot but a lot is also missing. Authentication, db migration, admin panels, ORM, Asset pipeline and probably more. It's a lot of custom work to do or pulling in various libraries.

I have mixed feelings on this. I go back and forth on whether I agree or disagree. For example, once an application becomes sufficiently complex, I've found ORM's to be more of a hindrance. The abstraction gets leaky and I end up having to tune custom queries to get around some pathological edge case. That said - most of my experience is with Rails and a lot of the implicit nature of it is problematic. On the other h…

>once an application becomes sufficiently complex,

Perhaps, but most applications don't start off complex. Most of them start off pedal to the metal develop as fast as you can.

Its also a gentler introduction to Go. I've wanted to use it on past side projects but the upfront cost of learning the language + figuring out how to get everything else was too steep of a curve.

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