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Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

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Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#131

Post by mherrmann »

ehou wrote: post #130
mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

For multi tenant deployments. Each tenant gets its own docker-compose in a directory on prod and voila: 100% same code base (same Docker image) and good separation between tenants

Yes, that's an example where Docker might make sense. But I don't think it's very common, or what OP was writing about.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#132

Post by marban »

fmakunbound wrote: post #115
mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

It’s too fucking hard to setup python with all its pyenv, anaconda, poetry, pip requirements.txt and what-not, that’s the best use case for Docker here. Get it to work once and forget about it.

PyEnv + Poetry — Couldn't be easier IMO.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#133

Post by mherrmann »

bschwindHN wrote: post #129
mherrmann wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also dislike all those tools you mention. So often, I feel like devs use a tool "because it's cool" but fail to appreciate the complexity it adds - not just for themselves but for others. The frustration expressed by your comment is a perfect example of this. In my ideal world, everybody would just use what comes with vanilla Python: python3 -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate (Or `call` on Win) pip install -Ur r…

I also dislike all the commands you just mentioned. In my ideal world, everybody would just ./the-program

And then ./the-program breaks and someone has to read its source code. Then, the fewer dependencies the-program has, the easier it will be to fix.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#134

Post by mherrmann »

marban wrote: post #132
fmakunbound wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too fucking hard to setup python with all its pyenv, anaconda, poetry, pip requirements.txt and what-not, that’s the best use case for Docker here. Get it to work once and forget about it.

PyEnv + Poetry — Couldn't be easier IMO.

Except plain old virtual environments instead of poetry. And pyenv only if really really necessary, and not in prod.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#135

Post by mherrmann »

piaste wrote: post #128
mherrmann wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many scenarios do you typically need to spin up your environment in? I achieve the same (defining the environment) by pinning Python dependencies via requirements.txt and virtual environments. And I have an installation script, like a Dockerfile but just an executable bash script, that installs PostgreSQL etc, pulls the code from GitHub and starts up the server. I can upload this to a clean Debian installation to…

> I don't. I just use one $5 per month Linode for each SaaS Well then you're basically using VMs as your containerization mechanism, with install scripts replacing Dockerfiles. So from your perspective, don't think of Docker as a really fat binary. Think of it as a stripped-down VM that doesn't cost a minimum of $5 per instance, and comes in a standardized format with a standardized ecosystem around it (package regis…

It's a really fat binary that adds unnecessary layers in both dev and prod. In dev, it's faster to run tests and easier to debug without Docker. And in prod, why use a vm inside a vm?

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#136

Post by laingc »

mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

This is a pretty common sentiment on HN and I’m sure you have your reasons for it, but to me personally it just seems bonkers. Docker is an absolutely game-changing tool for me. I can’t count the number of times it’s saved me from completely screwed up system libraries, tools installing config files in weird places, conflicting versions of this or that, or other versions of system pollution. I write a simple docker-compose.yml and I’m good to go - Docker takes care of sand boxing, networking, mounts - the works.

As I said before, you must have your reasons for your view, but my own experience is the polar opposite.

edit: typo

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#138

Post by bschwindHN »

mherrmann wrote: post #133
bschwindHN wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also dislike all the commands you just mentioned. In my ideal world, everybody would just ./the-program

And then ./the-program breaks and someone has to read its source code. Then, the fewer dependencies the-program has, the easier it will be to fix.

Sounds wonderful compared to dealing with Python tooling.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#139

Post by mherrmann »

laingc wrote: post #136
mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

This is a pretty common sentiment on HN and I’m sure you have your reasons for it, but to me personally it just seems bonkers. Docker is an absolutely game-changing tool for me. I can’t count the number of times it’s saved me from completely screwed up system libraries, tools installing config files in weird places, conflicting versions of this or that, or other versions of system pollution. I write a simple docker-c…

Sure, we're all just talking about our personal experiences. I just haven't run into the problems you describe. I use virtual environments to keep my system installation clean, and PostgreSQL / Nginx are so stable that the version I happen to have on my dev machine usually works with all my projects dating back to 2014 (but kept up-to-date).

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#140

Post by necovek »

Cyphase wrote: post #90
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's absolutely not scalable. And yet, somehow YouTube muddled along through and made it work.

And Instagram, and Dropbox (backend and client), and ...

People always forget that none of the things we stress about (code cleanliness, architecture, UX,...) make or break a product.

It's some weird combination of solving an actual problem decently enough (iow, it does need to work most of the time :)), good timing and some arbitrary pick up by the masses.

Like Google succeeded because they provided a no-frills search that had no ads, and geeks like us started pushing it down the throats of our non-geeky friends as The One True Search.

I ain't saying that Python leads to bad code (because you can have bad code in any language, just like you can have good untyped Python), but that there's this talk of scalability like it's some msgic thing that's impossible if all the stars are not aligned.

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