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CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

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Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#331

Post by ddingus »

nataz wrote: post #226
mdorazio wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These contracts are generally bloated, but if you've never seen how a $10M+ contract for things like this works you're probably thinking about it wrong. The actual development piece is a pretty small portion of the overall work. The bulk of it is figuring out all the requirements, wrangling legacy systems and data into some kind of shape that can either be interfaced with or imported, documentation, support (includin…

This guy gets it. Development is literally the simplest part of the problem set. The intersection of domain expertise, contracting/procurement creativity, and technical evaluation is the tough part to wrangle. Getting to the point where development can start is 95% of the battle in my experience. Not to trivialize the actual development portion of the project, but most missteps happen early, dooming projects before a…

A good team, having done this just once, assisted by domain experts, would bulld a code and knowledge base able to get the jump on future problems.

Wash, rinse repeat and it won't take long for things to run very nicely.

Bonus, code can be published, standards made, all that and bot rented by the year.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#333

Post by flarg »

fractallyte wrote: post #298
nataz wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy gets it. Development is literally the simplest part of the problem set. The intersection of domain expertise, contracting/procurement creativity, and technical evaluation is the tough part to wrangle. Getting to the point where development can start is 95% of the battle in my experience. Not to trivialize the actual development portion of the project, but most missteps happen early, dooming projects before a…

Wait! If there was a sane set of APIs and data interchange formats that was standard across the whole system , development would be the simplest part. It's because they have to shoehorn their solution into a morass of garbage software, that this turned into such a complex task. The real answer is to dump ALL these huge contractors, and their 'solutions', and make something new and better, with proper engineers direct…

Ha ha I know, but it isn't like that. APIs are always written as REST but the systems serving those APIs are not REST so everyone starts off building lots of GET APIs and then progress steams to a halt because it's tough to write loads of APIs for the many different types of write data flows in most systems.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#334

Post by mrzimmerman »

nojito wrote: post #131
stefan_ wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did we have the last nationwide vaccination campaign, whats the "legacy"? Pretty sure that was when IBM still made tabulators. I think you will find that if only there was someone in charge to put their foot down, you can do without a whole lot of these things. But that's part of the problem of course: the government contracting out is just a bunch of clueless people making up a wish list with a partner on the o…

The data flows into legacy systems like VAERS

You’re actually saying it costs millions to hand off data to a legacy system? A system that has probably had to consume something like XML or JSON in the last 20 years?

There is no excuse for this kind of cost for things as simple as tracking g appointments and completions regardless of data transformations and storage. There are no magical new protocols or data formats it’s using, it’s just a lot of people charging too much for them to have week long meetings to talk about their area of expertise. It’s an embarrassment.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#335

Post by saagarjha »

eaton wrote: post #276
eckza wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Development is literally the simplest part of the problem set. This is the single most important and insightful sentence that a lot of HN-ers are going to read today, and they don't even know it.

I'd never in a million years argue that Deloitte did an awesome job on a large government contract, but it's mind-boggling to watch the regular ritual of HN posters blithely insist that anything more over $20K and a pile of pizzas for government infrastructure is a scam.

Try offering it to them to do the job and see how quickly they change their tune.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#336

Post by bitexploder »

mdorazio wrote: post #52
didibus wrote: post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

These contracts are generally bloated, but if you've never seen how a $10M+ contract for things like this works you're probably thinking about it wrong. The actual development piece is a pretty small portion of the overall work. The bulk of it is figuring out all the requirements, wrangling legacy systems and data into some kind of shape that can either be interfaced with or imported, documentation, support (includin…

And then supporting it. For a decade. 44m might be bloated, but, it goes quick and it is work no one really wants to do due to how hairy and legacy it can get.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#337

Post by philipkiely »

brundolf wrote: post #209
offtop5 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For various reasons this wouldn't work, you have the various bands of government salary https://federalnewsnetwork.com/pay/2020/01/more-top-career-e... >But for a GS-15, step 10 in Washington, his or her salary should total roughly $185,509 in 2020. But due to the federal pay ceiling, that same GS-15, step 10 in Washington will make the limit of $170,800 this year. And that's the absolute Max, after you go to the tro…

That may be a low salary compared to FAAMNG, but it's quite reasonable for the rest of tech. It's a good bit more than I make with 6 years of experience in Austin, and I currently make almost twice as much as I did when I started. They don't need industry-leading researchers, they need people who can build a maintainable business systems.

Also, the core benefits (health insurance, retirement, etc) are better than most companies. Sure, you don't get the perks, but the core stuff is there.

For example, I'd rate access to Blue Cross Blue Shield Federal Employee Program health insurance for you + spouse for life and kids through 26 as worth 2-3k per month, and invaluable if you or a dependent has a serious health condition.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#339

Post by deathgrips »

dopylitty wrote: post #249
offtop5 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For various reasons this wouldn't work, you have the various bands of government salary https://federalnewsnetwork.com/pay/2020/01/more-top-career-e... >But for a GS-15, step 10 in Washington, his or her salary should total roughly $185,509 in 2020. But due to the federal pay ceiling, that same GS-15, step 10 in Washington will make the limit of $170,800 this year. And that's the absolute Max, after you go to the tro…

As someone with a degree in software "engineering" and more than a decade of experience in the industry I'd gladly take a stable government job creating or maintaining important applications that help the government provide high quality and necessary services to people. I would take pride in working on such a system as a vaccine administration management platform. Instead those jobs are doled out to contracting firms…

If you are interested in doing software development for the government, please browse USAjobs.gov or the careers section of any government department/agency you are interested in. It's a pain in the ass to apply and the government will take months to respond to your applications, but if you're highly qualified you will get a call.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#340

Post by acdha »

j45 wrote: post #322
acdha wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deloitte doesn’t usually hire dummies. IME it’s always the client being a total swamp creature. This has not been my experience, which is really to say that the world is big enough that you can find any combination of blame imaginable somewhere. Once you have misaligned incentives no part of the dynamic can be relied on not to cause problems.

When billing hourly it is more profitable (and not always ethical) to hire average people than top performers in every role. This is true, too often, in poorly run and ineffective consulting firms who optimize best practices to mean what is best for them.

It’s not a great look but it’s usually quite literally what the client is paying them for. I view the companies maximizing revenue the same way I’d view a shark: it’s what they are, and you can always choose not to jump into the water.
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